To think modern parenting has rendered us helpless?

[bustroubles]

I need to stress here I’m not advocating a return to smacking or anything like that. It’s horrible. Equally though I do sometimes wonder …

I suppose modern parenting hasn’t rendered you helpless if your child cares about sanctions but mine doesn’t. He’s three and I am mindful I don’t remember being three but I don’t think I was like this?

This morning he started throwing still damp clothes out of the drier. Told to stop over and over. Ignored me then ran off laughing. I’m just feeling helpless and a bit of a twat. I’ve no consequence he cares about, and time out isn’t recommended, smacking (which I’m positive my parents would have done to me in that instance) is illegal.

Maybe I have a particularly obstinate one but I don’t know … feeling a bit about it all. I know everyone will tell me what I did wrong but really I’m asking something deeper than that, if we’re just helpless now and reliant on our children’s good will?

Yes, and also in Ireland, you don't have gangs of kids hanging around street corners.

It’s mad that time out is seen as negative now imho. You’re just removing them from the situation and giving them some quiet time. They are probably still only 2 seconds away from you so the idea that they’re not able to co-regulate with you isn’t really true (unless you’re putting them in the cellar or something!!)

Nah 3 yr olds have always been wild!

BUT they are also not all the same - I remember a friend when we had toddlers asking why all the kitchen cupboards in my house had childlocks on them I said "because otherwise mine would empty the cupboards every day" oh she says I just tell mine they shouldn't 😂

Two of mine are now teenagers so I feel more confident saying I never did any punishment at all & they're genuinely nice helpful kind kids. The two books I would recommend are Playful Parenting & Unconditional Parenting both of which I found when I needed back up/language for what I did instinctively.

The most helpful thing of all I found was to reframe what they're doing as not just to make me crazy! Assume good intentions! (This is key with teens too) So removing the wet washing is probably an amazing sensory experience & it makes a satisfying noise when it hits the ground.
The second most helpful is to simply prevent things you don't want so childproof stuff/remove them.

Having said all that I vividly remember the hardest times were whenever I had a 2 or 3 yr old plus a baby in my arms or breastfeeding in my lap. Distraction was usually best but it is hard when you're exhausted.

The traits we find difficult in children are often the very traits we value in adults.

We had & still have firm rules & expectations btw it's not anarchy! It's kids having no rules or expectations which I think is bad for us/society/the future.

@Morwenscapacioussleeves spot on. That's what I wanted to say but didn't put into words half as well. 🤣

Thanks. There have been a lot of answers and I’ve probably missed a few. So I will come back and answer some more I suspect!

I have no issue at all with being stern. If it worked it would be great, it just doesn’t. He laughs or gets angry.

This morning we had the drier incident, asked him to wait somewhere for a moment and he ignored me so got drenched … sometimes it’s my fault and I haven’t managed something well but sometimes I just want to live my life and get a little bit of compliance, a little bit of respect 😂

DS is completely unbothered or motivated by food so that’s a no go.

Hoping my second is a bit easier but probably not!

Thanks @Morwenscapacioussleeves . I guess that’s my question: if you have rules and they ignore the rules … what on earth do you do? I think that’s what’s puzzling and frustrating me just at the moment.

At 3 he probably was just thinking he was actually helping with the laundry? But you are right, things can become a hilarious game once they know it comes with a reaction from you.

My son went through a stage of refusing to put his banana skins in the bin. He found it amusing (and he ate lots of bananas!). I just left the banana where it was and explained he wasn't getting anything else until it was in the bin. Literally nothing. No toys, no drink, no snack, no games, no garden. I mean they get bored quick so there was always something they wanted. I just said no, not until the banana peel is in the bin. I'd try the same tactic with the washing on the floor, although I would give him a hand once he started as it might be too heavy for him to do alone.

After that thank him for being a good boy and tidying up, having a high five or a cuddle and then yes we can get that fun toy out or go in the garden or whatever it was he wanted.

He never refuses to throw his litter away now. It might take a couple of goes to sink in though.

at that age even if they laugh or whatever you just need to be consistent and don’t react to the laughing.

but things like laundry I would get him helping with it instead of making it a battle ground.

I don't think a well timed smack is always a bad thing if it teaches them that they've reached the end of the line in a situation or doing something dangerous. I think the key with that is it is so rare it has a shock factor to it and it makes them listen and concentrate on what the adult is actually telling them.

Day to day though I think it comes down to expectations. You expect your child to put their shoes in a certain place and do it as routine, for example. You expect them to sit still in a restaurant and to stay with you nicely in a shop. It's also about positive attention. Ignore the behaviour they are doing to wind you up - stop them without emotion or conversation - but notice the good stuff. It is easy to do it the other way around.

It it easy to tell which children have no boundaries , exhausted parents and negative attention compared with the children whose parents have proper boundaries and gentle parenting done the right way. Preschoolers do actually quite like rules - they tell tales on their friends too! They key is making sure all the adults are consistent with the rules, redirection before a behaviour becomes a problem and positive attention. It isn't an easy stage but they do grow out of it in time!

I’m not making it a battle ground @Sirzy . He ran in the kitchen and opened a drier door and threw the wet stuff on the floor.

This is great advice. I do
this with putting shoes in the shoe cupboard etc.

Quite frankly, if we're being told now that even time outs are inappropriate, then parents are being deliberately set up to fail, as are the kids in later life.

It's more expectations that rules I think for example the rule/expectation in our house is you can have any part of you on a floor but no standing on chairs/tables/counters (mine were & still are climbers!) & no sitting on tables/counters so anyone who did that was simply removed (& yes often a furious tantrum happened). Removed with "we keep our feet for floors in the house" & then distracted with what is the biggest thing you can climb/let's go in the garden to climb/which playpark has the best thing to climb. And often they're still furious & all you can do is say I know you're feeling cross because you want to climb on the table but it's not safe.

it all sounds hideously awkward written out 🙈

When they're a bit older then it was more why we didn't do things or what they could do instead but always in positive action terms because small people hear the verb most ("we walk beside the road"rather than "we don't run")

Also I didn't/don't do rules that don't matter - if it was cold & they didn't want a coat I'd grab it in case they wanted it later (mine all run hot so often I carried several coats 😂 ). If they wanted to splash in puddles I had a change of clothes in the car etc smalls don't do foresight so I figure that's the bit we help with.

(plus getting them outside makes everything better)

I'm finding it hard to think of examples but I remember how hard it is the first time you're balancing the needs of a baby & rampaging toddler/3 yr old. That moment you have to get the baby home but big sister/brother just refuses to leave the park/woods & if I could just stay calm despite the sleep deprivation it was ok, she wouldn't leave but did want me to blow a magic bubble so she could float home, would help me look for the insects "over there", liked to run to the next leaf on the ground to jump on it 🤷‍♀️😂

As someone once famously wrote on here " toddlers are cunts"
It passes

It's really difficult trying to do things differently from the way in which our parents dealt with us as children as they were our first teachers and role models. This book "Toddler Taming" by Christopher Green https://www.waterstones.com/book/new-toddler-taming/christopher-green/9780091902582 saved me though as it helped give me a new perspective. For example "Problem: toddler keeps taking chocolate out of fridge, Solution: don't keep chocolate in fridge" - which seems obvious but if you're caught up in the problem you often can't see the wood for the trees.

Also with 3yr olds, often giving them more attention (repeatedly saying no) is just what they want. Although it's hard, just ignore him and walk away like you don't care or aren't interested. No audience means no point acting up.

As a grandparent who bought two DCs up on the "benign neglect" principle, I have always wondered how it is that those who oppose smacking never seem to be able to come up with a substitute for disciplining children.

I'm afraid I used the naughty step as it was quite ok then, and it worked!
I don't think I scarred DC for life as he seems like a very well adjusted 20 something who doesn't hate me.
At school they always said how pleasant and polite he was...

I must add the naughty step was used when he was around 3.

What a horrible thing to say. I personally wince every time I read the C word and to apply it to a child, however badly behaved, is awful.

I think they can: just that those methods don’t work for all children. I don’t think smacking would work on DS even if it was legal.

You actually threw it away?? That’s so cruel because for a child it’s not an amalgamation of cotton and wool ; it’s alive.

@csiaddict i had toddler taming too, great book! I reckon it would be regarded as very old school nowadays.

I do think we have lost our way a bit in parenting with boundaries and discipline. We are all bombarded with so much information and influence by social media that it's easier to lose confidence.

I'd do time out.He needs to learn quickly that it's not a game.

Have a read/watch/listen of Dr Becky at GoodInside (book, Instagram, podcast, ted talk etc). Her approach can be literally life changing. It's all about boundary setting. "Stop doing that" isn't a boundary. "I won't let you do that" is a boundary. But how won't you let them? You are asking a 3 year old to have impulse control that they simply don't have. Remove them from the situation, make it so they can't empty the dryer. It's hard work but all kids want to do well and everyone is only doing the best they can at the time. That applies to the parents too. Sometimes we don't react the way we want to but we are only doing the best we can at that time. Honestly she has changed the way I see my kids behaviour and boundary setting works.

Absolute nonsense. My children are very well disciplined and they have never been hit by us. I know many very well behaved children whose parents don't hit them. Not every child is the mumsnet stereotype of a screeching banshee running round restaurants and never hearing the word no.