For voting Tory

[Whatismypasswordthen]

I know what the Tories are and no, I don't like it. But I'm a woman, I have daughters and I come from generations of women who've been abused and dismissed because of their sex. I want better for my girls but I can't do it on my own. I need a government who will (at least give lip service to) supporting me. Am I a Tory? no. But the last thing women need is to be fighting their own government for basic recognition, so Tory it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/uk-culture-secretary-urges-ban-on-transgender-athletes-competing-in-female-only-events

I definitely don't vote Labour @lifeturnsonadime. I have never voted Labour. I have told you that a number of times.

So who do you vote for? and why are you so invested in telling women not to ask questions of Labour about this issue in the run up to an election. This is the right time to be asking these questions.

Hilarious. Back tracking on your earlier very clear statement after basically calling 90% of UK politicians TRAs, whilst simultaneously missing my point that noone else is making allegations about shills/bots etc.

So TooBig if you are not a Labour Voter you are definitely very invested in Labour winning as the opposition to the Tories because you want the Torieas out.

My points remain. Why should women not ask questions of the opposition about issues that impact us, about issues that impact our children just because you don't want another Tory government?

Oh Adam, you are the hilarious one. You think some women have penises and that women's rights independent of men don't matter.

Only it's not that funny for a LOT of women.

If you can't see that you are an activist I really can't help you at this point.

Really. I can get several receipts on this thread where I have been accused of being a shill or a bot.

Scroll back it's all there.

I'm very very far from a trans activist and I'm very very far from thinking womens rights don't matter.

But I can't be bothered to argue with you. It's a total derail of a thread about voting Tory.

Go on then. I'll wait. I'm not doing your work for you though.

LOL.

You don't like it because it's asking questions of the Labour Party.

As a Labour supporter I'd have thought that is very preferable from women just saying they will vote Tory instead.

As you were.

When it comes to women's rights you include 0.1 % of women who (according to Starmer have a penis), so your definition of women's rights are very different from mine.

No you're the one making unfounded accusations not me. It's there for all to see.

As is your belief that some women have a penis.

What an advocate for women's rights you are.

I'll be voting for the party most likely to make my SF MP squirm. I know he's unlikely to lose his seat so I'll content myself with worrying the fucker.

I am not invested in telling women not to ask Labour questions. Please read what I post instead of making shit up about me.

I will go back and read and apologise if I have misinterpreted.

It won't be tonight because it is late.

But out of interest where do you stand on this issue? Do you understand that some women can't vote Labour because of this who are traditional Labour voters and it is reasonable for us to hold them to task over it? Do you understand that Labour has a job to do to regain the women it lost over the expulsions it made when women first started asking questions?

I am very invested in getting the Tories out because I'm a feminist and the Tories hate women. As their record in government shows.

So you think that women should hold their noses and vote for a party who won't even define them?

My point from earlier remains.

No, it's gone to far. Women deserve better.

We are human.

I mean it's a cluster fuck really.

The Tories Hate women.

Labour know that and won't do the right thing by women.

Women are screwed.

I won't shut up about it. In a democratic society women deserve better.

It's not a "belief" it's a legal fact. I can't do anything about that. Until the GRA is repealed, that's how it is.

Denying facts doesn't make you a better "women's rights advocate" than me.

I agree re: it all being there for people to see.

Based on a fiction or do you believe people can change sex?

The GRA could be repealed or the Equality Act could redefine woman to only mean biological woman.

Starmer is a lawyer. If he cared about women he would commit to resolving this.

I pressed post too soon.

What is clear is that I am advocating for laws to change and believe that the Labour Party should do this when the get into power and should commit to it , along with apologising to the women they expelled for raising concerns.

Whereas you are using the laws as an excuse for having men in our spaces.

So who is really advocating for women's rights Adam?

Agreed, its a complete clusterfuck

Oh dear god how many times. I believe in biological fact. I don't think there is public appetite to repeal the GRA and in a democracy I accept that. I would like to see the EA strengthened and the GRA updated.

Labour have said they will update the GRA and provide legal guidance on the EA to ensure there are spaces for biological women only. That is much clearer than most other parties and certainly an improvement on the Conservative position.

You don't believe them, that's your choice. But don't imply those of us who make a different choice are some kind of activist or condoning harm to women. It's untrue and it's offensive.

But don't imply those of us who make a different choice are some kind of activist or condoning harm to women. It's untrue and it's offensive.

But in the meantime you believe that it is the right of some men to be in women's single sex spaces and you choose not to hold the Labour Party to account on this or even ask them their intentions going forward.

Adam you are an activist for the rights of these men to be in single sex spaces for women.

If this offends you then start supporting us women who are trying to change this rather than arguing with us on the internet.

Labour have said they will update the GRA and provide legal guidance on the EA to ensure there are spaces for biological women only. That is much clearer than most other parties and certainly an improvement on the Conservative position.

I'd like a receipt for this please. Because I don't think this is what they have said at all.

As far as updating the GRA they mean they will make it easier for a man to get one, they call it streamlining the process I believe.

As far as updating the Equality Act then there are several issues with this, IAAL, which I don't want to bore people with but as Starmer is also a lawyer he knows how to work it.

Please demonstrate which amendments the LP has committed to which will ensure that legal women (with a GRC) won't have access to women's spaces.

If they have indeed done that I will eat my words, apologise and vote Labour.

The Tories won't define them. Gillian Keegan said "it's not necessary", not to mention Penny Mordaunt with her TWAW and TMAM speech at the Despatch Box, giving the Tory government's response to ammendments regarding genderwoo in the Tory Maternity Bill.

"At least the Tories know what a woman is" was a big fat Tory lie. One of the many big fat lies this lying government has told. It blows my mind that purported feminists here spread it claiming to be single issue voters.

Perhaps if they spent a bit less time banging on about "but Labour" for the past 5 non-election years and a bit more time holding the government's feet to the fire, women could have made more progress. Instead they bigged up every muttering from KB and SB, ignoring the mantra of women's rights activists "Deeds not Words".

For whatever reason they allowed themselves ro be played like a fiddle by Tory shills, activists and liars.

I know what the Tories won't and will do .

I am asking for more from Labour if they are to earn my vote.

I think I vote differently from you. Parties have to earn my vote. The Labour Party made it clear they don't want mine because I think that women exist independently of men. As they haven't retracted that position why should I vote for them?

Please demonstrate which amendments the LP has committed to which will ensure that legal women (with a GRC) won't have access to women's spaces.

We need to recognise that sex and gender are different – as the Equality Act does. We will make sure that nothing in our modernised gender recognition process would override the single-sex exemptions in the Equality Act. Put simply, this means that there will always be places where it is reasonable for biological women only to have access. Labour will defend those spaces, providing legal clarity for the providers of single-sex services.

These policies will not please everyone. They will be attacked from all sides, in good faith and bad. But responsible politics is not about doing what is easy, it’s about doing what is right.

Annelise Dodds.