AIBU to feel disheartened by the lack of support and the presence of a crab bucket mentality among some women on here?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

Is it unreasonable for me to feel disheartened by the lack of support and the presence of a crab bucket mentality among some women on here?

When I first joined Mumsnet, I hoped to find a community where mothers and women could uplift and support each other on a variety of topics, especially those concerning parenting, finances, and the cost of living. However, I've noticed a trend where instead of offering encouragement, there's no support and a race to the bottom mentality.

Shouldn't this space be about rallying together to support everyone in the UK? We should be annoyed at the government for creating the cost of living issues and we should push for them to make things better for future generations.

Recently, I read discussions on the cost of living, where some individuals seemed unable to empathise with those facing financial struggles. Some suggested that just because they did it that it shouldn’t be a problem for those on above average salaries and it is simply a “choice”. Even suggestions of just “relocating to cheaper areas” without considering the complexities of individual circumstances, simply because they did it several years ago. It's disheartening to see dismissive attitudes towards those who are genuinely struggling, whether they're living on a tight budget or facing high living costs in the South due to personal ties.

If we, as women, continue to tear each other down rather than lifting each other up, how can we ever hope to bring about positive change? Let's try to foster a culture of support and understanding.

I think MN is heavily populated by high earning women or women who have married into money. It's on the main, a very middle class forum.
Those who think a 120K salary is on the low side, how anyone can become a high earner if they just 'put their mind to it' kind of thing. It isn't really reality. I wouldn't take it all so seriously OP. It would be nice if it were a more supportive and kind community but unfortunately I don't think it will ever be.

Not really.

I work f/t from home and have plenty of time on my hands. I don't have kids and my work is very flexible and I'm paid for my skills and experience, not a clock in/clock out situation.

Some days I'm busier than others. I am also, admittedly not on MN or other sites all the time, just when I fancy.

Everyone has a different life experience. It's all very well having empathy for someone poor but then you read about the poor life choices they have made and continue to make.

You want to support a woman who's posted about how miserable she is because she's overweight and then you read she's only made half hearted attempts to diet and exercise and is moaning as she can't afford a gastric band which to her is the only way she'll ever lose weight and your sympathy wains.

A woman posts about how truly awful her husband is to her and goes on and on about all the dreadful things he says and does to her and you offer help and advice but her heels are dug in as she states she won't leave because she enjoys the lifestyle with her husband. You feel annoyed that you posted links that could help her leave.

There is also of course, that we have our own views and opinions and just blindly supporting someone may go against personal beliefs.

Sometimes someone with a sob story is in a mess because of their own doing and it does not serve them well to be patted on the back and their hand stroked, they need a kick up the arse and be told to get a job or stern words to tell them it's they who are in the wrong and should apologise to their sister in law or whoever they have rowed with.

Painting women as all being in the same light is a huge disservice to them.

We are individuals and your post is very condescending.

Is that what you think you’re being criticised for? Maybe read the thread again.

I think that people sometimes post on here when they are feeling vulnerable and some random posters jump on them which is very weird and pathetic that keyboard warriors who would never dream of saying any such nonsense in real life can post.
Other posts are full of practical advice and thats when you get 5🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟 support.
Emotional support is very hit and miss.
Not sure why so many men are on Mumsnet. You can tell them a mile off!!
Keep Mumsnet for Mums who have "been there and done that" thats where experience is most beneficial!

MN is not and never has been a supportive place, not unless your face and story fit and pull the right heart strings. I've been here nearly 20 years now.

So people can never experience enlightenments throughout their life at differing points? We must all feel the correct feeling and understand exact injustices as and when they arrive, whether with direct experience or not? Human beings don't work like that.

Lobbying government aside, someone is entitled feel anxious over money if they have those feelings. And they aren't necessarily tied to being ungrateful or unaware or ignorant.

I disagree. I have also been here a long time under various names. Have had immense support in the many sub-forums. If you just want to vent about something, rather than get a ton of advice or criticism, post in Chat.

I really think it’s a bad idea to say that Mumsnet should only be for Mums or even parents. It began as a parenting board but has evolved into so much more (while retaining the strength of its parenting topics).

I wondered the same...thought it was just me

I think you are right OP. I quite like the forum in some ways because there are a broad range of topics discussed, people with varied experiences take part etc etc. And of course a lot of posters seem to have great qualities, be that wisdom, kindness, humour, self-irony.....

However I do also find it depressingly right wing also. There is a general sense of every woman for herself - no real acknowledgement that we have any innate responsibility towards each other as human beings (other than to observe property rights - any type of theft I have noticed is greeted with absolute moral outrage).

I also feel anybody who appears to be from a working class background tends to be bullied on some of the boards. (Not all).

It is what it is though. At the end of the day, none of us are forced to come on here I guess......

I think this. It didn’t used to be like this.

Ive also noticed that it makes me the same now. So l come in ready for a fight. Then l go on other forums and it’s nothing like it. But I’m kind of ready for it.

And I’m not like that in real life.

If you want unconditional support, ask family and friends in real life. This as supportive as your going to get on the internet.

If you're moaning about money and people tell you YABU, consider that YABU.

Also, the misuse of crab in a bucket by op is annoying. People not blindly agreeing with you is not a crab In a bucket fgs

This is really not true. You only have to look at the millions of posts containing solid career advice from people who are working in all sorts of busy jobs.

I actually think that MN is a good forum of choice for the type of person who enjoys an online chat but doesn’t have unlimited time to devote to messing about online because:

1. it’s well-organised and laid out and easy to navigate (things like “I’m on”, thread watching, See All OP’s posts and bookmarking are brilliant)
2. most responses are articulate and clearly-drafted
3. It a very fast-moving and has an endless supply of new ideas and opinions, so you will almost always get at least one good answer to a post, so the cost/benefit of drafting a post is better.
4. you can stick to the topics that interest you, or mix and match general stuff with a specialist interest area.
5. it’s well but not oppressively moderated.

There really is nothing like it. And there will always be a lot of women on maternity leave who have the opportunity to MN a bit while breastfeeding etc, or people like me who work part time, or people who use it as downtime during a working day, or at weekends.

Actually thinking about it, stepmums get a real kicking on here, I have noticed. I am not one, nor do I have any experience of one, so I have no skin in that game.

I also have noticed that a lot of women seem to think any time away from family is bad/terrible/weird. A fair bit of mummy oneupmanship. There are a lot of posters posting how they would never learve their DC for any reason until they are 18, or go anywhere without their DH's until their DHs up and die, but they seem quite martyrish and unhappy about it. There are no medals for being the best mum, really.

I dunno. I feel like nobody wants to take any responsibility for the choices they've made any more and just want to wallow in self pity. Also nobody wants to hear that they actually might not have made good choices.

I'm a lone parent, earning peanuts and getting benefits, been homeless, had a terrible childhood, was a teen mum in an abusive relationship.

I recognise that I have made some absolutely TERRIBLE life choices and wouldn't get immediately offended if someone said that to me. Because it's true. What is the point in sitting around feeling sorry for myself for decisions that I made, when I could take it as a life lesson and try to improve my situation?

If you just want someone to say "there there" and make all the right noises but don't actually want to do anything proactive then fine, but that's not going to help long term.

I use gender and I don't conform nor expect others to. Nor do any trans people I know.
HTH. Condescending wink not supplied.

Oh come now! Wanting to campaign about the cost of living all of a sudden because it impacts you personally isn't a road to Damascus moment that turns a person into a campaigner for social justice, is it? It's a self- serving response to a personal misfortune.
A sudden 'enlightenment' would surely involve a feeling of, goodness, if I'm feeling the pinch, how much must people on far less than me be struggling? Yet instead of this dawning empathy brought about by enlightenment, there is the seeming expectation that poorer people will rally round with sympathy, discretely keeping quiet about their greater hardship lest they fail to validate the feelings of the suddenly struggling.
Of course people are going to feel anxious if their circumstances reduce and of course they're entitled to those feelings. Where I think 'they' overstep is in expecting allies from people they have previously cheerfully ignored, and accusing those people of racing to the bottom if its not forthcoming. Race to the bottom is an incredibly offensive phrase to use about people who literally are at the bottom and have certainly not rushed to get there.

Can someone please explain the crab bucket mentality???

If you just want someone to say "there there" and make all the right noises but don't actually want to do anything proactive then fine, but that's not going to help long term

This. Saying "there there" and offering impotent sympathy is actually the very definition of crabs keeping others down in the bucket. It's Far more empowering to encourage someone to change the things in their life they are unhappy about so that they can actually improve their life. If they dont want to take action then thats totally up to them but then they are keeping themselves in the bucket arent they.

YANBU the Victorian attitudes of many are holding us back - I swear they'd be sending kids up chimneys if they could to encourage free enterprise and tech the little blighters the value of hard work.

I'd also like to add that just because a person doesn't like the responses they're receiving it doesn't mean that the posters are being mean, rude or unsupportive.

Support, sometimes, isn't just a pat on the back and a "there, there." Sometimes, it's people telling you something you don't want to hear-i.e., if you're in a shitty relationship and can't see it-someone pointing that out can be what you need in that moment. Does that mean you'll like it? No, but it's still necessary.

Ultimately, MN is just like every other corner of the internet. If you post something and invite opinions, you're going to get a vast array of opinions because we don't all come from the same walk of life. We all have our own experiences and opinions.

It also vastly depends on where you post on MN, too. AIBU tends to attract people who want to be goady, and argumentative, whereas other areas of the board tend to be a bit more helpful. If you post on AIBU for traffic-you have to shoulder the risk of the thread being found and pounced on by the few posters who want a bunfight.

Even then, it is only a few posters who were be deliberately dicks and you can spot them a mile off.

And just because someone is telling you something you don't like or want to hear doesn't make them dicks or goady.

I hate this "women should support women!" even when those other women are behaving questionably. We're not a hive mind. We're a group of individuals who happen to have been born the same sex as each and whilst we have shared experiences because of that-that doesn't mean we should just blindly support one another regardless of anything else.

If you want an echo chamber, buy a diary and write in that and lock it away.

From what I've gathered, it's where if you've got one crab in a bucket, that crab can climb out of the bucket. Put more crabs in the bucket and the other crabs will pull the climbing crab down with them.

Can someone please explain the crab bucket mentality??

It's basically if you have lots of crabs in a bucket, instead of them choosing to climb out of it, they will actively drag the other crabs down from trying to escape so that everyone stays there. In other words, best that we all fail than one or two succeed.

Thank you all for the explanation..... I'm having a dense day