AIBU to feel disheartened by the lack of support and the presence of a crab bucket mentality among some women on here?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

Is it unreasonable for me to feel disheartened by the lack of support and the presence of a crab bucket mentality among some women on here?

When I first joined Mumsnet, I hoped to find a community where mothers and women could uplift and support each other on a variety of topics, especially those concerning parenting, finances, and the cost of living. However, I've noticed a trend where instead of offering encouragement, there's no support and a race to the bottom mentality.

Shouldn't this space be about rallying together to support everyone in the UK? We should be annoyed at the government for creating the cost of living issues and we should push for them to make things better for future generations.

Recently, I read discussions on the cost of living, where some individuals seemed unable to empathise with those facing financial struggles. Some suggested that just because they did it that it shouldn’t be a problem for those on above average salaries and it is simply a “choice”. Even suggestions of just “relocating to cheaper areas” without considering the complexities of individual circumstances, simply because they did it several years ago. It's disheartening to see dismissive attitudes towards those who are genuinely struggling, whether they're living on a tight budget or facing high living costs in the South due to personal ties.

If we, as women, continue to tear each other down rather than lifting each other up, how can we ever hope to bring about positive change? Let's try to foster a culture of support and understanding.

It's only unpleasant to some because it points out the hypocrisy of those attitudes.

If you were out of the bucket and pointing back in saying how those in the bucket were at fault, and then suddenly find yourself in the bucket alongside those who you derided for being in there, and expect to be treated any differently, and suddenly demanding that we should all be helped out of the bucket, because you're now affected, then that's hypocrisy.

And you've just kind of proven the point really. Telling me off for attitudes that have been prevalent towards others for long enough because now it's affecting more important people, it's unacceptable.

There's an element of that sure, but also an awful lot of "well, your food costs are too high, can buy a sack of lentils for £5 and that'll feed you all for a month, that's what I did my kids were little". "Well it's obvious, just move somewhere cheaper" when it really isn't as simple as that.

And your post is exactly what the OP is talking about, some people having a chip on their shoulder and being gleeful that anyone is struggling with a "fuck you, you don't know what real struggling is and you DGAF before so fuck off now".

When that isn't a particularly productive attitude for society or a site. You can offer solutions without being an arse, which is what the OP is talking about.

It's the other side of the coin to the posters who historically and still currently respond to the posts of people struggling on benefits with kids "how lucky you were given a house and get paid not to work, I work f/t and have to pay for everything including £900 a month rent. I could never afford children so didn't have them"

Everyones pissed off and thinking someone is having it better or easier and attacking. And it's never okay.

There is certainly an element of everyone thinking someone else has it easier these days, even outside MN. I never, ever talk about money IRL or on the internet. I am not poor by any stretch, but I do have certain high expenses as two uni going DC and a mum in another country whom I visit.

I keep it to myself though, and try to cut down in other ways, as there are people far worse off than me.

No I got bored reading it. I've not got time to waste reading overlong posts or even longer replies

This is exactly it. Every is having a shitty time right now because of how expensive everything is.

Everyone is feeling it, so can people not be a bit kinder when people post that they are anxious about money, or feeling sad that can’t have the children they expected due to the insane costs of things?!

I think what I’m trying to express is people on here seem so ready to put someone down and fail to understand that some of this isn’t due to their choices but due to bad decisions that are made out of our control!

The problem with posting about money issues is that your particular income bracket will only be relevant to a few people on MN, rather than the majority, and so you're naturally going to get more opinions and comments from people who aren't in the same place as you in life. But also, the lack of empathy received is often a reflection of the lack of empathy you have shown first. On a site this large, you coming on stressing about struggling on £80k (for example) will be read by single mothers of disabled children surviving on carer's allowance and UC, and families who manage fine on £25k etc. To them, not only do you sound obnoxious, it just looks like incompetent people choosing to live a lifestyle they can't afford.

But the biggest issue is, people keep posting their serious issues in AIBU "for traffic" instead of in a suitable subforum.

I posted on here over a year ago on a a different name about some relationship troubles that were making me unhappy. You know what, the replies weren’t kind, they were horrible to read. BUT they were what I needed to hear. A few months later I “LTB” and I have never been happier.

Some times the mumsnet pile on is a good thing- when dozens of people are telling you the same thing it really is a wake-up call.

Does anyone really want platitudes or sympathy or do they want to know if and how to make things better? If on finances that is the wake-up call that you can no longer afford to do that particular job, to afford that house, with that car and people say materially something needs to change, I don’t think that is too awful

I hate the whole "be kind" shtick - it's pretty much always aimed at women and is generally used to shut down opinions people don't agree with.

There's a difference between full on unpleasantness (which isn't necessary) and just telling someone your opinion.

I’ve seen some amazing support on this site. Just incredible.

Ive also seen some tough advice and no-nonsense feedback.

I imagine that you created a thread and didn’t get the responses you were hoping for @NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting ? Maybe there was some value in the responses you got in terms of rethinking things? Hard to know without specifics.

Sometimes posters are arses. But often the deep thinking and care shown by total strangers on here is a beautiful thing.

But then we are alsp living in an age when words and a difference of opinion are "literal violence" so... 🤷🏻‍♀️🙄

The thing with MN is that posters dishing out the most brutal of 'advice' defend their brutality is with statements such as 'women don't have to fawn over someone / we aren't support humans / you don't deserve a 'there there' / I'm sick of the 'be kind rhetoric'.'

There is no middle ground there. It doesn't have to 'fawning' or ripping them to shreds. Even if you're in disagreement you can relay your opinion without the sheer hostility that is all too often present.

I guess that depends on whether you think it aids wellbeing and society to essentially treat others as though you hate them.

My women friends are a great support. I don’t see them as raw resources or cheerleaders.

The world doesn’t have to be as cynical as you describe but the anonymity on forums does tend to filter certain rainy day attitudes to the top where they then rain down on others.

No I got bored reading it. I've not got time to waste reading overlong posts or even longer replies

Asks question about crabs in buckets on MN, rather than google

refuses to read replies and still doesn't google

it’s nice to be supportive when appropriate but many threads are to debate policy issues and politics. The idea that we can all have a wonderful privileged life if only we force the government to give it to us is hopelessly naive. To govern is to choose. If we direct resources from one area, it has to come from somewhere else.

For example, you see this a lot on pension threads. If you point out the huge cost of public sector pensions, some people will respond that the government should simply force everyone to get a generous final salary pension and they’re turning us against each other. The reality is that taxpayers will pay for public sector workers to get generous pensions that are unaffordable in the private sector.

I have built up a public sector pension so am grateful for it (or will be in retirement). But that doesn’t lead me to be unrealistic about the cost to the public purse. Nor to discount the benefit of it.

I didn’t vote for the present government but the idea that they could suddenly give everyone everything they wanted if only they were not baduns is plain silly. There are limited resources and if we want to significantly increase public spending, most of us will need to pay for it.

Would you come onto a predominantly male forum and say this? Or is it "healthy discussion" when men argue but "crabs in a bucket" when women argue.

*My women friends are a great support. I don’t see them as raw resources or cheerleaders.

The world doesn’t have to be as cynical as you describe but the anonymity on forums does tend to filter certain rainy day attitudes to the top where they then rain down on others.*

Can you honestly say you've never disagreed with anyone (a friend, on here, anywhere?). If so, that's a lot more dull than simply giving an "unsupportive" response every now and again.

And I definitely agree with pp that women don't exist to cheer you on in every choice you make. We are allowed to have opinions, as long as it's generally respectful.

Maybe it's easy to say 'look at me, I'm a ray of sunshine!' on the more lighthearted topics, but there are definitely times when people need to be told 'this isn't ok'.

But you expect other people to waste their time typing out a reply to your question, a question which has already been answered multiple times, or you could have googled in the time it took you to ask it?

We should be annoyed at the government for creating the cost of living issues and we should push for them to make things better for future generations

What actions have you personally taken then to achieve this? because sitting around generally being annoyed about shit doesnt change anything except put you in a bad mood. It's action that changes things so if you are going to criticise others then I would ask what you have done about it?

Yes, I think in the main its exactly that. When people say move to a cheaper area, get a second job, eat cheaper food etc, they are simply talking about the things they do in their own lives because they cant afford to do otherwise. But such is the gulf, the newly struggling often see such suggestions as so unpalatable, ludicrous even for THEM, that they become offended, and believe the person is being 'nasty' to them to even suggest such a thing.

Shouldn't this space be about rallying together to support everyone in the UK?

Limited to the UK?? Because???

Ime there are posters (men and women, parents and non parents) from all around the world which can only be a better thing than just women or just mothers only in the UK.

I'm in a very large and active historical renovations and DIY forum, which is 85% men. When the tendency for hostility arises or deliberate undermining occurs, they are absolutely called out on it by men and women alike. And people do post from time to time to solely address it. Despite it being 'just DIY', a whole host of issues come about due to financial implications.

What do you find unpleasant about the post?

Well no, but they don't all have to be cunts to eachother eh? 😉

It's not about agreement. It's about the level of hostility of the disagreement.

I have been on MN for 22 years and it is has always been like this!