AIBU to feel disheartened by the lack of support and the presence of a crab bucket mentality among some women on here?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

Is it unreasonable for me to feel disheartened by the lack of support and the presence of a crab bucket mentality among some women on here?

When I first joined Mumsnet, I hoped to find a community where mothers and women could uplift and support each other on a variety of topics, especially those concerning parenting, finances, and the cost of living. However, I've noticed a trend where instead of offering encouragement, there's no support and a race to the bottom mentality.

Shouldn't this space be about rallying together to support everyone in the UK? We should be annoyed at the government for creating the cost of living issues and we should push for them to make things better for future generations.

Recently, I read discussions on the cost of living, where some individuals seemed unable to empathise with those facing financial struggles. Some suggested that just because they did it that it shouldn’t be a problem for those on above average salaries and it is simply a “choice”. Even suggestions of just “relocating to cheaper areas” without considering the complexities of individual circumstances, simply because they did it several years ago. It's disheartening to see dismissive attitudes towards those who are genuinely struggling, whether they're living on a tight budget or facing high living costs in the South due to personal ties.

If we, as women, continue to tear each other down rather than lifting each other up, how can we ever hope to bring about positive change? Let's try to foster a culture of support and understanding.

I made a shit choice in a man and posted about him on a similar forum to this (before this one existed). I didn't get support, I got people telling it to me like it was. The kick up the backside was exactly what I needed and my life drastically improved after I listened to it, even though it hurts at the time.
The 'support' needed doesn't always have to be fluffy sympathy for it to really help.

Brilliant 🤣😆🤣😆

I don't think your wrong OP I also tend to point out that it's not a race to the bottom or if a post is just toxic for the sake of it (which is different from pointing out issues).

Sadly I think a minority on MN just get their kicks out of this sort of stuff and it's quick and easy to do. They fail to or don't want to recognise that it can take a lot to even put a thread title up.
Unfortunately that minority becomes loud and others back away.

Don't post in AIBU. Its a bear pit But lots of support on other boards. Currently posters bring v helpful to a woman in the CoL board.

There are some incredibly supportive threads on here.

There are also plenty of threads designed to wind people up and cause drama

To me, the value of a forum is getting honest opinions or advice. Friends and family will usually sympathise and tell you what you want to hear.

What is a crab bucket?

Crab bucket mentality - are you referring to the idea that crabs will stop each other from escaping from a bucket as they don't want some crabs to break free of their fate and make a go of it? They'd rather keep all their fellow crabs together, even if it means staying in a bucket and being eaten?

I know I said I wouldn’t bother replying after the flurry of rude messages, which kind of proves my point that people are quite rude on here, but you’ve said what I was trying to articulate.

Thijg is, I don't think those messages were rude.

In your op, you made a sweeping generalisation and people responded to it.

You might not like the way it was dome or what was said but that doesn't mean people were rude.

You also seem to not realise that some people have been here for a very long time. I've been on here for around 15 years. Soe have been here longer. Some left because they didn't like the way it evolved once it became a more popular site, others joined because they like the robustness.

Most people can tell.when someone is being a dick deliberately and just ignore those posters. Some people just resent being told that they're doing being on Mumsnet wrong because it didn't match with a newcomer's expectations.

Would you join any other group of people (women) who'd been doing it a certain way for years and tell them how disappointed you were that they were doing it wrong? Probably not.

The 'tough love' excuse is trotted out regularly and always has been.

Along with 'Netmums might be the place for you' and the old trope about how we're mostly all educated independent women who don't suffer fools gladly so you'll get 'robust' replies.

They're all excuses to just be unpleasant and nasty. And I'm guilty of doing that at times in the past too, I just won't attempt to justify it.

Social media can be really toxic. You have to accept it or not engage in it is the conclusion I've come to. Railing against it or attempting to change it never helps. It just provokes defensive replies and here, these kind of threads have always happened regularly so also, people are bored/pissed off by them and that also influences the replies.

I’m only on this thread to learn about the mentality of crabs which is something I know nothing about.

My stupid ignorance for thinking this would have been more of a supportive place.

It is supportive if you post in the right places.

But, funnily enough, people don't take kindly to being told they're doing everything wrong and will react accordingly.

A lot of people complain about the seemingly quick leap to a chorus of LTB when a woman posts about her husband with what seems to be, on its face, a minor problem.

However there is usually enough detail in the OP or follow-up posts to create a clear picture of what is really going on. Sometimes people can’t see the wood for the trees and I find MN on the whole very clear-sighted about getting to the bottom of the real issue. Posters don’t always like it because they were in denial.

It’s a forum which means it will be over populated by those who have more time on their hands. Nowadays that’s pensioners and those who don’t work. People who work don’t have the time to be frank, to sit online posting all day. Therefore the biggest voice will come from those who do. As these people rely on the taxes of workers to fund their choices, they get very angry at anyone who works for living and has done well for themselves. Which is all very ironic.

Exactly.

MN has always been relatively straight talking. It's never been a fluffy "you go girl" site. There's always been trolls that go from thread to thread kicking anyone down on any topic- the names and style often become familiar. There's smaller boards where the quietness doesn't feed the trolls' need for attention and where better quality support is avaliable.

It does have some blinkered posters with little grasp of the world beyond their experience, but is generally less of an echo chamber of most doorsteps. It's a broad society, goes beyond the UK, biased towards females and the above average end of education/ literacy, and a greater representation of SNs (either by the poster or their family) than average.

Women don't owe each other to be nice coz they're women. Don't be a dick is generally a good policy though.

When I found it over a decade ago, the direct style and ability to swear properly were quite refreshing.

The 'tough love' excuse is trotted out regularly and always has been

It depends what people mean by tough love.

Tough love is about delivering a necessary truth that can be difficult to deliver and difficult to receive. Being an arsehole is never 'tough love'. It's being an arsehole.

Sorry to tell you but it's the internet, and with that, there's going to be different opinions and some opinions that you won't like.

I'm not sure what getting angry at the government is materially going to do to help a person. We can rage at the government all we want but it's not going to reduce the cost of food at the supermarket, is it?

So, instead, people present solutions to people and ultimately, it's up to them if they want to take the advice or leave it.

As I see it, if you have someone making £100k per year and living in SE and struggling to make ends meet-they have a few options:

1. Try and boost their income through overtime, side hustles
2. Reduce their expenditure-move into a smaller property with a smaller mortgage, cut out any expensive cars on finance, and so on
3. Relocate.
4. Put up with it and keep whining at the moon and hoping for it to change.

There's only three out of the four options there that will actually help the person.

It's not that I don't think that people on that much money can struggle, they absolutely can, however, they likely have more options to fix it and struggle less than those on benefits, for example.

People may not want to relocate and that is understandable-but ultimately, that person then needs to acknowledge that they've chosen to prioritise family ties (for example) over affordability.

Great post. I’m not a high earner but due to the privileges I’ve had in life haven’t really had to worry too much about money. Things are tight now and while my DH and I will moan about it to each other, I’m not discussing it with friends or on MN because I’m well aware that some have always had to struggle in a way that I have not.

And as for MN being supportive (or not), I’ve been here about 16 years and there have always been threads moaning that MN isn’t supportive and the women of MN are mean etc. 🤷🏼‍♀️

MN has always been a place where people tell the truth and don’t sugarcoat things. But I have also seen people receiving wonderful support through some of life’s biggest challenges (terminal illness, bereavement, DV etc.)

This is so true, and so many of us have been there before, and recognise a shitty, imbalanced relationship instantly. Posters will say they are miserable, but 'he's a great Dad' then it turns out he really isn't.

We are individual and human and its unfair to expect us to be part of some sort of "sisterhood" and not have our own views.

This

It can get wearing when you see people repetitively posting about issues (relationships, finances etc) and being given loads of thoughtful, sensible advice, and watching them stick their head in the sand because they don't like it.

Some people come on here clearly looking for an echo chamber, looking for people to sympathetically agree with everything. Mumsnet isn't that.

On a societal level it feels people are getting less resilient. Less able to accept changes, tackle a problem, be willing to make sacrifices to get what we want, cut losses whem something isn't going well. Everyone expects someone else to come along with a solution.

It's worrying

@clairelouwho

Excellent post. If something is causing you pain then you need to look at possible solutions for it.

I dont really get how constantly whining about it and superficial sympathy from strangers online is helping anyone- thats not changing anything, it's not lessening the bills each month. It's just marinating in a "well this is shit and it will be like this forever" mentality. How is that helping anyone?

I think MN is very supportive but you will get posts that disagree or are just mean for the sake of it it's up to the user to just scroll past and realise not everyone is going to be sympathetic or think you are right, or even have a problem.

I've started of thinking of Mumsnet as every school playground in the country at pick up time combined - you've got everyone here. And yet, if we were actually physically standing in that playground, the truth is there are some people you wouldn't go to for support or advice, not in a million years!! The forum obscures this truth. I use this to better manage my expectations now.

Ah, the old “but he’s a Great Dad” Mumsnet bingo.

The beauty of this site is that it gives access to the experiences and perspectives of people whom you might never meet in real life. And sometimes you realise that you only think he is a Great Dad because you are surrounded by other examples of shit fathering as the norm and have no idea what a “Great Dad” actually looks like.