AIBU to feel disheartened by the lack of support and the presence of a crab bucket mentality among some women on here?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

Is it unreasonable for me to feel disheartened by the lack of support and the presence of a crab bucket mentality among some women on here?

When I first joined Mumsnet, I hoped to find a community where mothers and women could uplift and support each other on a variety of topics, especially those concerning parenting, finances, and the cost of living. However, I've noticed a trend where instead of offering encouragement, there's no support and a race to the bottom mentality.

Shouldn't this space be about rallying together to support everyone in the UK? We should be annoyed at the government for creating the cost of living issues and we should push for them to make things better for future generations.

Recently, I read discussions on the cost of living, where some individuals seemed unable to empathise with those facing financial struggles. Some suggested that just because they did it that it shouldn’t be a problem for those on above average salaries and it is simply a “choice”. Even suggestions of just “relocating to cheaper areas” without considering the complexities of individual circumstances, simply because they did it several years ago. It's disheartening to see dismissive attitudes towards those who are genuinely struggling, whether they're living on a tight budget or facing high living costs in the South due to personal ties.

If we, as women, continue to tear each other down rather than lifting each other up, how can we ever hope to bring about positive change? Let's try to foster a culture of support and understanding.

I disagree. Ignoring the differences causes division because the people who suffer the most remain invisible and unheard, subsumed into a mass of supposedly shared experience that disregards their compound disadvantage.
On a practical level, If I came on here looking for advice about managing in the CoL, I'd find the suggestions of people who've been doing that all their lives extremely helpful. If that was offered with an unwanted side order of 'check your privilege' from people who objectively had it far worse than me, I'd take that, because they'd be right! I'm very fortunate compared to many people. I know it and I own it. If I have problems my advantages offer me a cushion that not everyone has. I'm grateful for that, and if I forget and start to feel disproportionately sorry for myself, I don't mind being reminded. I'd never 'put the boot in' to anyone and do think some people are harsh. But equally others lack empathy in the other direction.

Mmmmm. Crab.

I haven’t had a good seafood platter in ages. Better get one in while there’s still an R in the month.

Quite,

It's absolutely fine, though. The hypocrisy is delightful.

My only question is, what would international posts look like? Of course, we don't post in our national languages on a UK-based site. Anyway, carry on.

@NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting

I disagree with you as often mumsnet supporters are rightly supportive got abused women and even men who are in equally abusive dysfunctional relantships,
got their backs giving beneficial supportive advice emotionally financially practically allways,
in that particular situations
and in other particular situation topics then too,

However if something needs to be said straight down to earth tell it is kind of advice needed and necessary for some one to take off Rose 🌹 tinted hued glassed off,
.then so be it,

Wish i had too had mumsnet social media forum when i was in my late teens and twenties
What a difference it could have made and saved me from real emotionally abusive situations and people staying in emotionally gutter with them bit too long and other situations

Of course just like in real life and on here you will come across Arseholes sometimes,
it's after all going to attract all sorts from life acctrated to this website just like most things in life

Is it, when did that obviously happen as I genuinely think that’s where some of the problems lie, people are going to seemingly tone deaf if we are now in context of global audience. MN used to be very London/south east centric and all these changes which are how a site evolves makes causes much of the confusion and division I think.

WTF is a ‘crab bucket mentality’?

Probably best to remember that there’s quite a lot of men on here masquerading as women.

From the responses I assume there are:
1A number of members of fathers for justice who suggest women should leave their home and accept 50:50 custody as max they can expect
2A number of daily mail and telegraph journalists who keep suggesting everyone vote conservative because 'they knows what a women is' yes they do as they have made women's lives a misery since 2010.
3A number of people from other countries - mostly English speaking
4 Lots of supportive people.

You need to read Terry pratchett 😂

Basically crabs will hang off each other dragging them back into the bucket should they ever try to leave

Not that crab salad is a step up from a bucket though

That’s so so obvious now.

Sure, life doesn't always work like that and it may be that they simply can't leave the area where they're living.

However, a truth needs to acknowledged here-if a person is struggling to afford living in, let's say SE, on a 6 figure income, and they don't wish to relocate to a more affordable area because their kids are settled in school/family/job-then those things are being prioritised over affordability. That is ok-but it should be acknowledged and the person shouldn't throw their hands up and say their hands are tied, should they?

In the end, I think those posters have to ask themselves what they expected when they posted. Did they want people, who are often on much less than 6 figures, to pat them on the back and go, "there, there?" I acknowledge that a lot of people, on varying incomes, are finding it tough at the minute and I have sympathy for that.

If someone says that they're living in a notoriously expensive part of the country and says that they're struggling to afford life-what is the solution that they want to be told to them? No one can magically make the SE affordable, can they?

So, the logical solution would be for the people to leave and move to a cheaper area that they can afford. If they won't do that, for whatever reason, then they need to look at their lifestyle and see what can be cut. Or see how they can increase their income streams.

It's common sense. If a person wants to post and just vent-they just need to say that in their OP. Otherwise-people are going to offer suggestions and it's no good getting offended when people offer perfectly common sense solutions to a problem that's presented to them.

I first came across it in disc world book but don't know it Pratchett coined it or it already existed- means other crabs seeing you getting out of the bucket will pull you back down with them.

Similarish to I think New Zealand's Tall Poppy Syndrome.

Older phrases know your place or not for the likes of us mentality don't stive for more stuff (more frequent I think in working class areas).

This is a very subjective viewpoint which not everyone buys into. Ditto the sneering about kinder and softer ways of relating to others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

Crab mentality, also known as crab theory,[1][2] crabs in a bucket[a] mentality, or the crab-bucket effect, is a way of thinking usually described by the phrase "if I can't have it, neither can you".[3]
The metaphor is derived from anecdotal claims about the behavior of crabs when they are trapped in a bucket: while any one crab can easily start to climb out,[4] it will nonetheless be pulled back in by the others, ensuring the group's collective demise.[5][6][7]
The analogous theory in human behavior is that members of a group will attempt to reduce the self-confidence of any member who achieves success beyond others, out of envy, jealousy, resentment, spite, conspiracy, or competitive feelings, in order to halt their progress [8][9][10][11] even though there are no benefits associated

I think some people come here just looking for a fight or to join a fight that's already started and gang up to let off steam in their own lives / situations where they can't be as assertive (or maybe they can!). It doesn't reflect well on those people at all because often it's one point they hang their objections on and they don't look at the full picture of what they're being told. They don't think outside the box. It's limited and it's boring.

Your 'not putting the boot in' might look and feel very different to the person on the other end of it.

I'm not saying ignore suffering or make it invisible. I'm saying people can all suffer and one person's suffering can be as bad to that person as another's, even if you subjectively grade them differently.

Looking into crab mentality I see it played out across threads on here all the time. And zero sum mentality.

I often suspect that many of the sorts of posts that you describe are not from women.

This place is often toxic.

I often wonder how frequently are happy, well adjusted and fulfilled people, actually using mumsnet as a platform for conversation? Honestly, it would be my guess that a lot of mumsnet users are not this cohort. So your sample here is very skewed.

But in general, it isn't people who've struggled all their lives giving advice.

It's mostly people who struggled for a bit but are now living very well and being dismissive because they've forgotten how shit it really was and are now preening that they worked hard and sacrificed and it's just fine not to have a night out or pair of new shoes for years because they did it and kids don't notice if all their clothes and toys are secondhand. The bootstraps/Yorkshireman sketch posters.

And a lot of others who have struggled and do still, who aren't giving advice but post "my God I'd love to have £50 disposable income per month after all the bills, I'd live like a King, you're so unreasonable". The Life of Brian prisoner posters - "you lucky bastard, what I wouldn't give to be spat at in the face, years I spent dreaming about being spat at in the face".

If a poster is complaining about having to choose between a spa day and their kids tennis lesson, that's daft. But usually, it's people complaining that despite having good jobs and working hard, they can't buy a house or if they did, they are struggling to make ends meet.

almost. “She reached down and picked a crab out of a bucket. As it came up it turned out that three more were hanging on to it. ‘A crab necklace?’ giggled Juliet. ‘Oh, that’s crabs for you,’ said Verity, disentangling the ones who had hitched a ride. ‘Thick as planks, the lot of them. That’s why you can keep them in a bucket without a lid. Any that tries to get out gets pulled back. Yes, as thick as planks.’ Verity held the crab over an ominously bubbling cauldron. ‘Shall I cook it for you now?’ ‘No!’ said Glenda, much louder than she had intended. ‘Are you okay, dear?’ Verity enquired. ‘You look a bit ill.’ ‘I’m fine. Fine. Just a touch of a sore throat, that’s all.’ Crab bucket, she thought. I thought Pepe was talking nonsense. ‘Erm, can you just truss it up for us? It’s going to be a long night.’ ‘Right you are,’ said Miss Pushpram, expertly wrapping the unresisting crab in twine. ‘You know what to do, that’s certain. Lovely crabs, these, real good eating. But thick as planks.’ Crab bucket, thought Glenda as they hurried towards the Night Kitchen. That’s how it works. People from the Sisters disapproving when a girl takes the trolley bus. That’s crab bucket. Practically everything my mum ever told me, that’s crab bucket. Practically everything I’ve ever told Juliet, that’s crab bucket, too. Maybe it’s just another word for the Shove. It’s so nice and warm on the inside that you forget that there’s an outside. The worst of it is, the crab that mostly keeps you down is you . . . The realization had her mind on fire.”

— Unseen Academicals: (Discworld Novel 37) by Terry Pratchett
https://amzn.eu/irjDvmH

It doesn't have to be 'Kim-By-Ya', it just has to be decent and not speaking to people like trash. You can disagree with someone without being hateful.

I was wondering about crab bucket!

If you avoid AIBU the rest of Mumsnet isn't toxic.

Tbh there's a victim mentality that some fall into and are generally fragile enough emotionally not to receive tough love or rather 'cutting through the BS' well from other women and perceive it as dragging them down or being cruel, not a motivational bit of wisdom that saves them pain if they heeded

I used to be like that and a few MN posts and real life experiences taught me to value that higher than people who tell me what I want to hear or tell me things how I don't feel angry in response, sometimes I do feel angry how things are said 😂

I remember how some threads stung like a bitch... and I needed the nethuns approach for a while, but

Once you remember nobody knows you personally and what they respond to is the picture you build and info you give and type posts expecting to be called out for something you've overlooked if posting in AIBU ... I quite appreciate it here now

Different topics have different types of people on ofc and emotionally fragile days aren't ones for me to join in or post in AIBU

The be nice to me, women must stick together and build each other up thing doesn't really have any merit if people just want validation for stupidity ... like what's the point in telling each other we're doing just fine if we're not? That's not actually that kind is it? Cheerleading what will obviously get someone nowhere?