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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think why are men still shit?

208 replies

Momsitter · 17/03/2024 23:49

Off the back of another thread I just read...

still thread after thread of abusive men. Calling their wives "fat fucks". Seeing hookers. Cheating. Cocklodging. Financial, physical, emotional abuse.
Still women raising them, marrying them, having 3 kids with them.

We've got better rhetoric and "feminism" in the media and arts, better representation in the workplace and social awareness but really fuck all is changing in relationships, is it? Why is that? What are we missing?

OP posts:
Hivernal · 17/03/2024 23:55

The short version is that most women would rather be with a shit man than be alone.

Lazypeopledrivemecrazy · 17/03/2024 23:59

Hivernal · 17/03/2024 23:55

The short version is that most women would rather be with a shit man than be alone.

I think this answers the question admirably!

VeniVidiWeeWee · 17/03/2024 23:59

Why do some women make sweeping generalisations?

TuliLily · 18/03/2024 00:00

Hivernal · 17/03/2024 23:55

The short version is that most women would rather be with a shit man than be alone.

Absolutely this. This sums it up basically. I've just read a post from a woman who got back with a man she dumped 11 years ago who is now treating her awfully, texts her that he doesn't like her / care about her or want to be with her doesn't to meet her kids (she wants him to) blames her for leaving him 11 years ago yet she's still seeing him and asking what she can do to help reassure him 🤦‍♀️ anything better than being single it seems

WandaWonder · 18/03/2024 00:01

And all women are perfect saints?

Jumpingthruhoops · 18/03/2024 00:04

People can only treat you how you let them. If my man was like any of those you describe, he'd be gone. Period.

Personally, I can't relate to the men you speak of. My dad and husband are both legends!

Stephenra · 18/03/2024 00:13

FWIW I once had a correspondence with a woman who was intelligent and articulate. As our talk went on, she eventually revealed that she'd spent eight years with a guy. Into the second year of this relationship she had discovered evidence that he was having numerous affairs. He'd turned on the 'oh I'm so sorry I promise I won't do it again... spiel' and then it happened again and again. For another six years.

I asked her if the relationship had ended. She said 'Yes.'

'What do you mean? Have you blocked him? Changed your number and email? Cut yourself off completely?' I asked.

'Well,' she said. 'He's still got my number...'

In my experience, in this kind of a case, decent, stable men are totally invisible to a woman like this. So then we get 'all men are shits' and other invidious generalisations.

Bobbotgegrinch · 18/03/2024 00:18

Hivernal · 17/03/2024 23:55

The short version is that most women would rather be with a shit man than be alone.

It's this.

And I hate saying it, because it's not feminist, and women are not responsible for men's behaviour, but I come on here every day and think "Why the fuck are any of you putting up with this shit?"

The fact is that a significant minority of women will put up with shitty behaviour. And not just from their partners, but from friends and family too.

I sometimes wonder what a male version of this place would be like. I see threads like:-

"My best friend makes me pay for everything"
Oi, Dave, it's your round you stingy prick.

"My FIL keeps making disparaging comments about my drill handling skills"
Sorted, haven't seen him since 2008

"My wife embarrasses me in front of my friends"
Nope, never got past the 3rd date.

Obviously I'm being flippant, and exaggerating, but the fact is that we're so much less willing to put up with people's shit than women are overall. And yes, I understand that women are socialised from birth to be the smaller person and to rub along to not cause arguments, and that women have good reason to be scared of men.

But that's the reason. People are shit, people will look to get ahead and take advantage of you. And women are far more likely to allow it.

Screamingabdabz · 18/03/2024 00:22

Jumpingthruhoops · 18/03/2024 00:04

People can only treat you how you let them. If my man was like any of those you describe, he'd be gone. Period.

Personally, I can't relate to the men you speak of. My dad and husband are both legends!

Totally agree.

Hereyoume · 18/03/2024 07:15

Men aren't shit OP, some are, and so are some women.

I read some threads on here and it seems like another world, I have no experience of the types of men some posters talk about. None that I know would ever treat women like that.

If they are that bad, why on earth do some women get into relationships with them in the first place?

BrunchYes · 18/03/2024 07:18

YABVU and this is sexism

WhatAMessAgain123 · 18/03/2024 07:26

To answer the above question why do we get with them in the first place? Simple, they didn’t display their shitty behaviour at the start. They revealed their shitiness once after we’d had kids with them and were stuck.

And why do we stay with them once they reveal themselves as arseholes? Because I want to see my kids everyday! Better to be stuck with a shitty bloke than not see my kids daily. For me anyway.

Heronwatcher · 18/03/2024 07:26

I think that the above reasons are right but not the whole picture. Women are the ones who have to be pregnant and have the kids. In so many cases they don’t return to work and fail to maintain their independence (sometimes admittedly partly because they choose to). These days most aren’t married either. In some cases this point is when men start behaving differently to how they were before the baby and become abusive. Or the woman sees behaviour which has always been abusive what it is for the first time now she has a baby to be responsible for. The woman is then in a horrific catch 22 situation where she either puts up with the shit behaviour (which obviously gradually gets worse as she does so), or decides to move out with no money, no home and the prospect of having to hand her precious kids over for days at a time to the nasty bastard. In the meantime the behaviour gets worse and the woman rants on here…

For every woman justifying a bad man, I see many more who are desperate to leave but simply can’t do so.

Flossyflop · 18/03/2024 07:31

I agree with the comment that some women would rather not be alone, however I don’t fully blame women for this.

Women have endured 100s of years of being made to feel like “not being picking”
by a man or being old and alone makes us washed up, haggered, witchy, spinstery, catladyish etc

Some women also still judge women on this to this day!!! Again not our fault, it’s been ingrained in us generally.

We need to empower women that choose to be alone as much as we can and celebrate them. I have a lovely long term partner but i’m not afraid to be alone, and infact that is liberating. I’m not scared of being left or having to say enough is enough if that time ever comes.

GreyCarpet · 18/03/2024 07:35

Hivernal · 17/03/2024 23:55

The short version is that most women would rather be with a shit man than be alone.

This.

And also this - Still women raising them, marrying them, having 3 kids with them.

Some men will always behave like this. Women aren't obliged to marry them though.

GreyCarpet · 18/03/2024 07:37

Heronwatcher · 18/03/2024 07:26

I think that the above reasons are right but not the whole picture. Women are the ones who have to be pregnant and have the kids. In so many cases they don’t return to work and fail to maintain their independence (sometimes admittedly partly because they choose to). These days most aren’t married either. In some cases this point is when men start behaving differently to how they were before the baby and become abusive. Or the woman sees behaviour which has always been abusive what it is for the first time now she has a baby to be responsible for. The woman is then in a horrific catch 22 situation where she either puts up with the shit behaviour (which obviously gradually gets worse as she does so), or decides to move out with no money, no home and the prospect of having to hand her precious kids over for days at a time to the nasty bastard. In the meantime the behaviour gets worse and the woman rants on here…

For every woman justifying a bad man, I see many more who are desperate to leave but simply can’t do so.

I agree with this but thee are so many posts on here which start "I've been on a few dates with a man and... should I give him.another chance? What if he's the one" Or "I've been in a relationship with my new partner for 6 months... am I expecting too much?"

He's not your partner after 6 months and if he were 'the one' (nonsense anyway) you wouldn't be feeling like this!

Didimum · 18/03/2024 07:40

Because they are enabled to be, by men and women alike.

PinkyFlamingo · 18/03/2024 07:41

WhatAMessAgain123 · 18/03/2024 07:26

To answer the above question why do we get with them in the first place? Simple, they didn’t display their shitty behaviour at the start. They revealed their shitiness once after we’d had kids with them and were stuck.

And why do we stay with them once they reveal themselves as arseholes? Because I want to see my kids everyday! Better to be stuck with a shitty bloke than not see my kids daily. For me anyway.

And there lies the reason so many kids grow up with emotional problems and damage being exposed to awful toxic parental relationships

User135644 · 18/03/2024 07:42

Because those men are shit. And clearly A lot of women are attracted to shit men so it incentivizes shit behaviours.

MattDamon · 18/03/2024 07:42

A young couple recently moved in next door. Both very attractive, high flying city types, spend a lot of time a the gym. I can hear the boyfriend screaming horrible abuse at her most days. What a stupid cunt she is, etc. It makes me so sad for her.

GreyCarpet · 18/03/2024 07:42

People are shit, people will look to get ahead and take advantage of you. And women are far more likely to allow it.

Yes. And so many pride themselves in being a people pleaser and then berate others for having a dodgy moral compass or not being as considerate as they are when, in fact, they just have no boundaries and are a walkover.

(Thinking specifically of a friend I was talking to at the weekend who is having problems at work but ive seen pride in being a people pleaser and personal back patting for being such a nice person and not understanding why others don't value them more for it).

abracadabra1980 · 18/03/2024 07:47

FWIW, I have tried to bring my son (now living with DP) up to be aware that he is required to pull his weight with everything involving the home. That's housework and home admin as they have no children yet. I still see it as my 'job', to advise, but without interfering. We have a great relationship and I hope it stays that way.

User135644 · 18/03/2024 07:47

MattDamon · 18/03/2024 07:42

A young couple recently moved in next door. Both very attractive, high flying city types, spend a lot of time a the gym. I can hear the boyfriend screaming horrible abuse at her most days. What a stupid cunt she is, etc. It makes me so sad for her.

Edited

Why would you choose to be with someone like that though? Some women just like arsehole men.

curiousasacat · 18/03/2024 07:49

Bobbotgegrinch · 18/03/2024 00:18

It's this.

And I hate saying it, because it's not feminist, and women are not responsible for men's behaviour, but I come on here every day and think "Why the fuck are any of you putting up with this shit?"

The fact is that a significant minority of women will put up with shitty behaviour. And not just from their partners, but from friends and family too.

I sometimes wonder what a male version of this place would be like. I see threads like:-

"My best friend makes me pay for everything"
Oi, Dave, it's your round you stingy prick.

"My FIL keeps making disparaging comments about my drill handling skills"
Sorted, haven't seen him since 2008

"My wife embarrasses me in front of my friends"
Nope, never got past the 3rd date.

Obviously I'm being flippant, and exaggerating, but the fact is that we're so much less willing to put up with people's shit than women are overall. And yes, I understand that women are socialised from birth to be the smaller person and to rub along to not cause arguments, and that women have good reason to be scared of men.

But that's the reason. People are shit, people will look to get ahead and take advantage of you. And women are far more likely to allow it.

Show quote history

I hate to say it but I agree with this. There is a thread about a cocklodger where the woman is saying she's scared of being alone. I get that fear is scary but surely being single is better than feeling completely alone in an actual relationship? Why is being single worse than being sponged off by a parasite- I just don't get it. (In this case they had no kids together either so its not as if that was the reason)

foghead · 18/03/2024 07:53

Many women, even those with good men in their lives, believe the initial shitty excuses men give for crap behaviour 'oh sorry. I was stressed/angry/overwhelmed. It's not what I'm normally like'
So the red flags get ignored because they want to believe that those men really aren't that shit. Why would he be? He's good most of the time.
Then they end up further down the line, trapped and the behaviour has become more normal.
Women need to value themselves more and bin men that aren't coming up to scratch. Sadly, many don't.

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