To think why are men still shit?

[Momsitter]

Off the back of another thread I just read...

still thread after thread of abusive men. Calling their wives "fat fucks". Seeing hookers. Cheating. Cocklodging. Financial, physical, emotional abuse.
Still women raising them, marrying them, having 3 kids with them.

We've got better rhetoric and "feminism" in the media and arts, better representation in the workplace and social awareness but really fuck all is changing in relationships, is it? Why is that? What are we missing?

All of this.

I would go even further to that and say women are raised to believe that marriage and family are part of every woman’s goals. If you aren’t married, then you’re an old maid and worthless to society. I know that my mother said things like this to me all the time and put enormous pressure on me to get married, and to stay married when I was miserable. I think as well that most cisgender women, and I’m including myself in this category, feel that they need to be attractive to men. This gives men the power. naturally, I don’t think that we should feel this way, but I cannot help but feel as I get older that I’m becoming invisible because I’m no longer attractive and it’s hard to take. There is some part of every woman’s ego that is tied up and how attractive we are, and that means how attractive we are to men.

This post is unreasonable.

1 in 4 women suffer domestic violence. You have no idea what goes on behind closed doors.

Often violence doesn't start until pregnancy - when it is hard to leave.

I can guarantee that she's come from a verbally/emotionally abusive background. She might be financially stuck and as he's conditioned her to stay, it's escalated.

I find it sad to see the young women in the area I live in making the same mistakes, but growing up in low level domestic abuse is their biggest influence.

Men have always, always had the upper hand. And with that comes and insidious arrogance and privilege. Any man, I believe, deep down, feels that he is superior to women. Because that is what society still tells them. And changing that is nigh-on impossible, especially with the rise of Andrew Tate types, getting in the heads of young men. (This really worries me).

Many of them also want the traditional set up whereby they rule the roost and women do the domestic drudge and child rearing, thus leaving them free to live as they see fit.

Most men seem to (possibly secretly) like the archaic inequality.

this. 💯

Why are SOME men shit should be the name of your thread, not all of them are.

best advice my mum and gran gave me was to choose wisely and don’t put up with shit!

I know too many people who have settled, don’t think they deserve better and would rather be with a shit man than no man.

no thanks, aim high, be with someone who sees you as an equal and makes you feel like their number one.

@ABwithAnItch
"There is some part of every woman’s ego that is tied up and how attractive we are, and that means how attractive we are to men."

No there isn't. I was beautiful, personally I like that the harassment has stopped. I don't want to be critiqued by men while just living my life. How dare they reduce my to how I look. I see what you talk about for what it is and how it should never have been the case. You are still internalising your Mother's messages, your feelings don't apply to all aging women.

"no thanks, aim high, be with someone who sees you as an equal and makes you feel like their number one."

Or of a woman just wants sex, let's not treat her as having low self esteem/jusge because she's getting it without having to tie herself to a useless shit.

Not my experience at all. I've encountered more 'shit' women in life than men.

They don’t show how shit they are until the woman is pregnant / just given birth , so it’s almost impossible for her to leave unless she has family who will take her in.

And it’s pretty hard to give up on your dream of a family with two parents.

And there’s plenty rhetoric out there of how HARD it is for men when they are not getting enough attention / sex / housework standards are slipping etc

So she stays and tries to make it work for the kids.

Don’t blame women for biology ( she is the one who is pregnant , gives birth and BF) .

Don't blame women for their instincts to do their best for their kids - that is one of our very best traits, don’t use it against us.

Don't blame women for the fact that society ( run by men) makes it hard to be a single mum because of the costs of childcare.

Don't blame women for the fact that most men abandon their kids after they split up with their mum and hardly any of them do 50:50.

Don’t blame women for the fact that most men don’t pay full child support and our legal and financial system lets them away with it.

Yeah. Course you have. 🙄

The trick is to stay the hell away from crap men (and women) and take no notice of the scape-goating, sensationalist, misogynist media.

My experience of the men in my family and circle is that they are nothing like the horrible people I see described here. They are decent, honest, thoughtful and considerate and would be exactly that even if they thought nobody was watching. If they weren't like that I wouldn't give them the time of day.

Exactly this, always baffles me when people say they won't see their kids every day as if shit men suddenly step up and become great fathers once you leave, truth it most don't bother seeing their kids at all after the relationship ends, personally I know I'm alone with this but I see some child free time as one of the perks of separation 🫣

Tbf it's usually "my partner is so great because he cooked dinner" or worse 'looks' after the kids. Yeah that's just normal stuff and women aren't celebrated for parenting or cooking dinner.

Are you a man? I assure you most women definitely do not like being with arsehole men.

If you knew anything about the psychology of abusive relationships maybe you'd realise why women are with abusive men.

sadly, when I was married to, and subsequently left my abusive ex-husband, I was told, exclusively by other women, including my own mother, ‘but he doesn’t hit you.’ I’ve heard similar off every single woman I’ve ever known who’s been in a relationship with an abusive man. Funnily enough I’ve never been told this by any other man than the one who was abusing me.

Women have terrible standards for themselves, and probably even worse standards for other women. Not being hit is a bar so low it’s half way to hell, and of course we all know a man who doesn’t hit can turn into a man who does hit in a split second. In my case, ‘but he doesn’t hit you’ then turned into ‘I wouldn’t let a man raise his hand to me.’ Basically from be grateful it’s not that bad, to It’s your own fault it’s that bad. It’s no wonder women keep their mouth shut when they’re being abused when this is what they get off other women. We need to stop being such assholes to each other.

and, while we’re on the subject. To the ‘but he doesn’t hit you’ brigade, no woman ever has had an aggressive man shouting and screaming in her face, pushing poking and blocking her way, and thought, it’s alright, I’m perfectly safe, he’s not a hitter.

it’s clear that women can’t change men’s behavior, God we’ve been trying for centuries, so we need to start looking after each other instead. Throwing another woman under the bus isn’t gonna make your life any easier or make your man treat you any better, so stop doing it.

This, all day.

My dad was a great example of a husband, and our mother was also a great example of knowing your worth. They showed us how to treat your partner and be a team. My brothers are excellent husbands and dads now, and I've chosen to marry a good man who respects me and treats me like a true partner.

All these women tolerating this crap in front of their kids are raising the next generation of selfish boys who think their needs come above all, and insecure girls who would rather be treated poorly and ran into the ground than single.

It's not bleak at all! My life became 100 times better once I divested myself of the need to have a male partner and focussed my attention on my friends, family, pets, intellectual development, travel and physical fitness. I laugh more, feel joy and exhilaration more, feel a lightness and an engagement with the world that I never had before.

we are more adaptive than men, often more emotionally and intellectually curious and flexible. We don't have brittle egos and so we can roll from life's punches and get up again. Also, we live longer - more time to enjoy this beautiful world :-)

Yep. That's it.
At the same time I know plenty of men who aren't as you describe. In fact, 90% of the men I know ate decent. A minority are shit.

@Hivernal

The short version is that most women would rather be with a shit man than be alone

Not most women, just some women who have low self worth and are bad judge of character

Not all men are bad, MN is a forum where people come to vent about their problems and ask for advice, the many many women who are with very good men don’t need to come on here and talk about them because why would they….. reading MN would give the impression that every man out there is shot when in fact this is far from the truth

Why would you choose to be with someone like that though? Some women just like arsehole men

On the face of it it’s a silly comment but if you dig deeper there’s actually some logic to it. I’d wager that probably 10-20% of the population, male and female, would score very high on a psychological/behavioural test that measures selfishness/self-centredness and general anti-social tendencies. There could easily be 1 million women with arsehole men in the UK who actually rarely complain and are actually pretty happy on the relationship - because THEY are arsehole themselves also. Because of course these men and women are not just arseholes in their behaviour to one another, they are arseholes IN GENERAL. Some issues arise when you get a mismatch: only ONE side of the couple turning out to be an arsehole - false advertising if you like.

My experience isn't that most men are shit. I've been lucky enough to only have good men in my life. I expect the men who do behave badly leave an enormous trail of destruction and trauma in their wake - those men will be brothers, sons, uncles, colleagues, friends, fathers, boyfriends and spouses...pebbledashing misogyny far wider than good men, living decently alongside women could ever make up for.

Because, poverty for women is a very real danger and homelessness too.

That's why women stay.

Like attracts like.