To think why are men still shit?

[Momsitter]

Off the back of another thread I just read...

still thread after thread of abusive men. Calling their wives "fat fucks". Seeing hookers. Cheating. Cocklodging. Financial, physical, emotional abuse.
Still women raising them, marrying them, having 3 kids with them.

We've got better rhetoric and "feminism" in the media and arts, better representation in the workplace and social awareness but really fuck all is changing in relationships, is it? Why is that? What are we missing?

Why are some women arsehole magnets?

I think men take women for granted.

two middle aged men I know:

One in steady long term relationship but bangs on about ‘really wanting a ditsy 30 year old’.

one about to start dating after divorce, totally out of shape, bankrupt, bad teeth. Aiming for a submissive woman from Thailand. Probably to look after him, sleep with him and cause him no bother. Sorry for the racism but it’s required to make the point.

so bottom line is both men want all the spoils of having a woman around without making any effort.

the thing is they don’t know that they want. If both these guys got their ideal women, which they will do easily, they’d be bored in an instant, and complain that women are stupid.

then it all starts again. They’ll be back at n tge game again.

you give a man a beautiful, intelligent, kind woman and he’ll be looking over his shoulder at the younger lady in the corner.

they need to appreciate the women they have

Perhaps instead of making sweeping, sexist generalisations about 4 billion people on earth, we could apply some brainpower?

Most people who post on Mumsnet are women. Most people in general are attracted to the opposite sex. Therefore, most of the people who post on Mumsnet are women who have romantic relationships and families with men.

People post on MN about various problems in the hopes of getting advice from other users. If things are going well, they have no reason to post. Popular post topics include dating, romantic relationships, domestic abuse, parenting and running of the household.

If most posters are women who are interested in men, and many posts are about relationship and family problems, then a disproportionate number of posts will involve dysfunctional relationships with male partners.

If you went to a similar forum where the majority of posters were lesbians and straight men, the dysfunctional relationships would involve female partners - would you then conclude that "all women" are shit partners?

Some MN topics do not involve romantic relationships. They involve things like bitchy mums at the school gate, crap female friends, drama-filled all-female friendship groups, and difficult MILs. I see far fewer posts about bitchy dad groups, crap male friends, drama-filled male friendship groups or difficult FILs. What does that mean? Should I assume all mums, female friends and female colleagues are shit? Should I make a thread about such assumptions? Or should I recognise that the sample is biased and that there are plenty of decent women in the world?

The same people who make frothing-at-the-mouth posts about "all men" would be out for blood if they saw similar posts from men about "all women". The hypocrisy is unreal.

👏👏👏

This sounds like it was written by AI

Do you think so? I wouldn't have said so. It does sound like someone who's not spent much time in male-oriented forums, though.

Don't get me wrong, it's definitely a two pronged approach and empowering women matters, of course it does. But the brag/blame approach typically taken on this thread is the antithesis to empowerment. Its also overly simplistic to say that if women stopped putting up with it it would no longer be a problem. It would no longer to a problem for that individual women in that specific home, but it wouldn't stop an abusive man abusing women, or a shit man being shit to women, in the street, at work, wherever he had the opportunity to wield power. Which given our relative physical strength and comparative likelihood to hold power positions, is pretty much everywhere. Unfortunately as liberating as it would be to say their behaviour would cease to matter, that's never going to be the case. And where behaviour poses a significant problem (which whatever the deniers claim, it does, and stats support it) it needs to addressed at source. Because it's unfair and not feasible to put the onus on women to keep sidestepping and running away as the solution.

@PartOfTheFurniture12 the generalisation is necessary for the argument. We know it’s a stereotype but there IS a proclivity for men to treat women badly and for women to put up and shut up. It simply cannot be ignored.

Yes it can be seen as sexist to have this type of sweeping argument but it can also be seen as sexist NOT to have this sort of generalist argument. Brushing the subject under the carpet because it risks offending people is not going to help us progress our way out of the situation. And this will be mainly to the detriment of women (although actually destructive male behaviour hurts the species as a whole although that is an entirely another discussion).

The evidence is all around, not just on MN but in the news, in real life, we all KNOW people.

Yes women behave badly, but generally speaking again, they do not pose such a dangerous threat to men, and the vast majority of the time they will exhibit behaviours that are family positive. They want a stable and safe home life for instance, it’s usually the number one priority for women, whereas men often seek to maintain a life away from the family home: they work away, they go out with their friends, they work long hours, they are more likely to have hobbies, they are more likely to seek out other sexual partners etc.

The challenge is I think how do we get more men to drop their entitlement, face up to their responsibilities and become better allies to women instead of ‘othering’ them and seeing them as being put on the planet in order to serve?

To me I think it’s the fact that men view women as being different to them, they compartmentalise us and marginalise us. This is partly I think to do with tribal behaviour, where a man’s survival depends on the male allies he makes and in this case women are not deemed as useful; but the subordinating of women is much to do with culture and the sexualising of women in the media.