To think why are men still shit?

[Momsitter]

Off the back of another thread I just read...

still thread after thread of abusive men. Calling their wives "fat fucks". Seeing hookers. Cheating. Cocklodging. Financial, physical, emotional abuse.
Still women raising them, marrying them, having 3 kids with them.

We've got better rhetoric and "feminism" in the media and arts, better representation in the workplace and social awareness but really fuck all is changing in relationships, is it? Why is that? What are we missing?

Why too many men (rather than all men) are still shit:

• it is still a patriarchal society build by men for men

• porn: men are still encouraged to see women as passive sex object and to confuse sex and abuse. Also the internet has glorified dangerous idiots like Andrew Tate

• because they get away with it: as other people have commented already too many women has low self-esteem and are still raised to be 'nice' and 'caring' at all cost and to believe that their worth is linked to having a partner, so they put up with poor behaviour from men as being single is seen as the ultimate failure for them

• there is little punishment through the legal system for sexual abuse: most perpetrators get away with sexual assault and rape as prosecution and conviction stats show

• our politicians themselves get away with sexist/misogynist comments & behaviour so the rot starts at the top and nothing ever gets better.

Frankly it is a really sad state of affairs that we are still in that situation in 2024.

It's the whole "be kind" BS. Women are expected to put up with shit that men arent out of some stupid archaic rule that women should be caring and nurturing and their needs don't matter. I see all kinds of threads on here where a woman is being treated like absolute shit by friends, neighbours, relatives and its always "be kind". When it's a man, noone ever says that. I wish people would stop with the be kind crap because its never actually "kindness", its always women being told to put up with poor treatment from others.

Exactly this. Then those children grow up with poor boundaries and a skewed sense of what's right or wrong in a relationship. And so the cycle continues.

Socialisation starts at home. A friend of mine told me a story recently where he was at a pub, there was a family on a nearby table, parents and a boy and a girl. The boy was being a little terror basically whilst his sister sat there quietly playing. The boy wanted the toy his sister was playing with, she refused, and he responded by throwing a tantrum. The girl was then scolded by the parents for not just giving him the toy. My friend expressed how much it pissed him off to see a young girl being taught nice and early that it's her job to pacify boys. She was basically told it was her fault he was throwing a tantrum. How is this likely to impact how she handles future relationships with men?

Yes we have more feminist representation in the media. Barbie came out and everyone applauded and revelled in it's girl power message. But so many young girls at home are still being taught it's their job to appease men. Media is only a small aspect of socialisation which shapes our norms and values. Home life during adolescence is really the most pivotal time to instil the right norms and values.

An awful lot of people are raised around unhealthy relationships, but for women the stakes are higher. They end up with shit blokes because they don’t know any different. Plenty of men also have the same shit start and poor examples, but their prospects, as long as they can avoid crime, tend to be no worse than either shitty low paid jobs or being a deadbeat waster. They don’t get pregnant or give birth, and they can fuck off and leave the mother to raise their kids with little to no consequences then go and do the same again with another woman. They are bigger and stronger and again, can’t get pregnant, so much more likely to be the dominant/violent ones in dysfunctional and abusive relationships. Women on the other hand get left high and dry with the babies while the men swan off, carefree into the sunset. The woman on the other hand has to raise the kids, and doubtless the next man she gets involved with will be as bad if not worse than the last, only this time she’s got more responsibilities and fewer choices.

basically, life can be a constant do over for Men, but for women it’s game over once they continue a pregnancy, and human beings don’t like to be alone.

As a pp said, they don't start off treating you badly or else you wouldn't buy a house or have kids with them. Then it is much harder to get out.

Many don't but a lot do as threads on MN show. And women still want to marry them...

@Stephenra "In my experience, in this kind of a case, decent, stable men are totally invisible to a woman like this. So then we get 'all men are shits' and other invidious generalisations"

I completely agree with you here @Stephenra I don't know what it is. I am myself guilty of it.

I found a good one, luckily recognised it and have never looked back.

But also on here we don't hear from the women who are in happy stable relationships, because they don't come on here asking for advice on how to cope...or if they do its for practical specific issues advice where the partner doesn't warrant a mention (eg health, job and so on)

Often these toxic relationships are when people are young, and they get caught unawares by the way he changes once she is pregnant.

And although women these days are more aware and independent, if they have grown up watching their parents (previous generation) in a shitty relationship it becomes generational, they are emotionally wired to think that's how relationships are.

But also on here we don't hear from the women who are in happy stable relationships, because they don't come on here asking for advice on how to cope...or if they do its for practical specific issues advice where the partner doesn't warrant a mention (eg health, job and so on)

This is true. I've seen people post about their great partners and they get told to stop bragging so I feel like it's not really encouraged to post about happy healthy things. The posts that are awful and shocking get the most attention, traction and advice.

Or have their multiple kids. But yeah, some women want to be able to say they 'have a man' - regardless of how useless he is.

SOME PEOPLE are shit!!

Good decent stable men won’t be interested in fucked up women though. Emotionally damaged, traumatized and codependent women are hard work and destructive to be around, and I know this because I used to be one. I can’t speak from the point of view of a man, but I can as a lesbian, and there are lots of women I’d avoid like the plague when it comes to relationships.

Birds of a feather flock together.

Is that better for your kids though? To see their dad treating their mother like shit? What life lesson is that giving them?

You would see your kids everyday, shitty men ditch the kids as quickly as possible.

In my 'family', who I split with many years ago and now refer to them as my DNA donors, the women are the problem.

Two 'alpha female' sisters who utterly controlled and dominated their husbands, criticised everyone who didn't settle for churning out children and working in retail, who have now passed their 'shit' behaviour onto to their daughters, who have passed it onto the next generation too. Its all so clear and utterly sad.

I recognised the issue as a teenager and, thankfully, met a girl who was as far removed from that mindset as it is possible to get.

I'm also a retired cop. Trust me, women can be as 'shit' as men. It just doesn't get the headlines as much.
There's excellent, good, bad on both sides.

Humanity is flawed.

I think you'll get a lot of answers from reading between the lines of the responses on this thread. You will have seen already the posts blaming women themselves for poor choices and low standards, the whataboutery that pretends there is an equal problem with women's behaviour, the denial there is a problem at all, the NAMALTIng and the not my Nigeling. The absolute desperation to stick fingers in ears go la la la and pretend that women are not being exploited or abused, and if in very rare situations they are, its their own fault. Those other stupid women are to blame. Not men.

While this attitude persists, women in bad relationship will continue to shut up and put up because they don't want to be seen as the sort of inferior woman men treat badly. They will try harder to make it work so they're not percieved as failures. They will get too little support and encouragement to know they deserve better. Until we can talk about this in a way that doesn't blame women, we will never get to the root of the problem.

Tbf I was one too, Dh is good kind and decent, I probably reeled him in with a veneer of togetherness though, but he stuck it out with me and we paid a mini fortune in therapy fees (he’s the reason I even started therapy).

So some men do, what I would say though is that he was absolutely not my type but I figured every other relationship was a shitshow so why not give a relationship with a decent kind person a go. I think traumatised women tend to pick the worst men tbh.

When women do dump these men, we get slated by the media, and other women, for being single parents. We truly cannot win.

We still live in a male identified society. Boys are given credit for things that are merely expected of girls. Girls have to be twice as smart as boys to get the same credit.

This continues into adulthood. All a man has to do to earn praise is get a decent career and take his kids to the park once in a while. Women have to get a decent career, still do the bulk of the childcare and housework, and not dare to get fat or go out in a sloppy outfit or without make up. We have to spend more of our hard earned cash on self grooming. If our children go wrong, we are blamed.

I honestly think woman are naturally superior to men because we have more stamina, grit and toughness. We are like this because we have to be.

Men know this and that's why they hate us.

This place is populated by threads about truly awful men. Appalling. Abusive. Useless. Entitled. Unfortunately, my experience of the partners of my friends, sisters, colleagues… they’re not dissimilar. So I think that explains the ‘sweeping generalisation’. Because it’s rife.

Who cares? I've been a single parent for 15 years and I'm not interested in what the outside world thinks of it.

This a million fucking times. Jesus, it’s bleak.

Unfortunately I have read that there is a rise in teenage boys becoming misogynistic thanks to exposure online to men like Andrew Tate. We need to shut down this type of thing now or it will get worse.

I choose to be alone because MOST men ARE shit……..in different ways. There are different levels of shit aren’t there? Full on horrendous abuse all the time, occasional abuse, coercion and control, nastiness ‘but not all the time’, treating women like sex objects, cheating, lying, being a useless father, being a useless husband, not pulling their weight, treating their wife like a maid, checking out of family life, casual misogyny and so on. Not all men do all of those things but most do at least one or would do them if they thought they could get away with it. And all those things all stink just the same. I’m not prepared to put up with any of it so I choose not to. It’s not worth it to me. I am worth far more than that.

And yes, some women are also arseholes, though not on the scale that men are. But this thread isn’t about women. The title very clearly says men.