To think why are men still shit?

[Momsitter]

Off the back of another thread I just read...

still thread after thread of abusive men. Calling their wives "fat fucks". Seeing hookers. Cheating. Cocklodging. Financial, physical, emotional abuse.
Still women raising them, marrying them, having 3 kids with them.

We've got better rhetoric and "feminism" in the media and arts, better representation in the workplace and social awareness but really fuck all is changing in relationships, is it? Why is that? What are we missing?

Amazing humble brag. Best I’ve read in years.

Here we go... Literally no-one said that. Guilty conscience?

Amazing humble brag. Best I’ve read in years

A prime example of my earlier post:

This is true. I've seen people post about their great partners and they get told to stop bragging so I feel like it's not really encouraged to post about happy healthy things. The posts that are awful and shocking get the most attention, traction and advice.

Yes, I think this is it. They see it as strength, possibly dominance. Sometimes they feel like they are healing and changing him with the power of their womanly love (they're not) and paradoxically, you can't be reminded of what you're healing him from if he doesn't display it sometimes. Trauma and drama can be exciting, as horrible as that is to say. They don't like it exactly, but it satisfies some sort of need.

My mother dumped her first fiance because he didn't stand up for her and protect her enough. She then married my father, an angry abusive misogynist who spent their marriage calling her disgusting names, terrorising the house and bashing the kids around. All hearts and flowers on Valentine’s Day though. He was so strong and caring.

'Bragging' that I have decent men in my life?

Blimey, it really is a race to the bottom, isn't it? 🙄

Girls raised without fathers tend to settle for less worthy men.

This! I was raised by my incredible dad, which I definitely think influenced my choice of boyfriend/husband. If nothing else, an arsehole wouldn't have made it through the front door!!

What I would also say - and this too might be controversial - is that I found that being a daughter raised by a dad gave me good insight into how men 'work' in general. Definitely helped when the time came to move in with my (now) husband.

Misery loves company, as they say.

I would change what you said from girls raised without fathers to girls raised without good male role models.

I also think that girls who have a good loving relationship with a decent father have a better chance of choosing a decent man later in life. I never saw my father treat my mother with anything except respect. I have self esteem issues in some respects but never in how I expected men to treat me. This gave me the confidence to dump a disrespectful immature twat,refuse his entreaties to take him back, and wait for someone better to come along. Which he did and we’ve been happily married for 34 years.

Exactly this! Mine's 30 years 🙌🙌

I love the way you didn’t quote me, so I don’t have the opportunity to respond to your criticism. Jumpingthruhoops comment is callous and unempathetic not just towards women who have been treated poorly by men, but in general towards anyone who has ever been treated badly in any relationship. I also think it is total BS, unrealistic, and completely immature. Saying that people only treat you as you allow is such a garbage statement. Oh so you’ve lived your whole life never having had someone you know be an ahole to you? I don’t believe it. Long-term relationships have ups and downs and saying oh that person would be removed from my life if they treated me badly is such BS. People and relationships are not black and white, they are unending shades of grey and making comments like this shows a complete lack of understanding of real life. Not helpful and it IS bragging.

No. You are bragging that you don’t ‘allow’ people to treat poorly as though women who have been treated badly deserve it. Callous, unempathetic, unhelpful. I also call total BS.

They don't 'deserve' it, of course not. But if you're being treated badly, and stick around, you are 'allowing' yourself to be treated badly. That's obvious, no?

I don't 'deserve' to be treated well. I just surround myself with people who know how to treat others and, in turn, that is the outcome.

You call it bragging, I call it how things should be. 🤷‍♀️

I’ve never heard a woman say this. Men very conveniently say it about women though.

I have heard women say it. And even if they don't, there's a certain type of troublesome man who doesn't seem to struggle for attention.

I can't relate, I can't stand the gurning, loathsome fuckers. But I'm not all women.

@ABwithAnItch I totally agree with you. I think we internalise a lot of it.

i was very good looking when young, and like @Ponoka7 I am quite happy that the intense pestering had stopped and I can live my life.

However, with age my desire to be found attractive by men has also diminished.

I definitely think when you’re younger, your attractiveness is importaMy in a way it isn’t to men

Definitely a thing. "Some" women love the "Bad boys". That is until it's them who suffer it! It's the way some women enjoy the lifestyle from blokes who are tax evaders or handling stolen property, etc., until they suffer from lack of child maintenance due to undeclared income or suffer because their "bad boy" is in prison. They liked the "living on the edge" at the time, but didn't like the consequences a few years later! Likewise with domestic violence - they turn a blind eye to their "bad boy" beating up someone else but then cry foul when they get beaten up themselves.

I didn't think you were bragging.

I'm middle aged and have experienced relationships with quite a few men, as in Father, Brothers, Uncles, Cousins, Friends & Partners. A lot of them positive experiences but also some bad ones.

The Not My Nigel comments really annoy me.

I agree that from about 14 years old I felt pressured to having a boyfriend. I wasn't ready and when I was about 15 I heard my Dad ask my Mum if she thought I was lesbian. I then went on a couple of years later to have a relationship with an absolute dick head who was abusive. I think this was because I felt pressured and rushed to meet someone.

I'm now married to a lovely man and this is not a brag.

Plenty of domestic abusers beat up their partners and present a perfect face to the rest of the world.

Time and place isn't it? The OP is asking for opinions on why we think shit men are shit. Talking about your non shit man is about as relevant as going on to a thread about the difficulties of living in a flat with no outside space to say you've got some lovely begonias in your garden.

@Jumpingthruhoops what I meant about the Not My Nigel comments was that I hate how it gets thrown about if you dare mention that there are some good men out there.

The thread title should have been - Why do you think shit men are still shit.
.

Exactly. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me n times, shame on me. There is a LARGE element of learned helplessness about a lot of these dysfunctional relationships. I would never have dreamed of tolerating the awful treatment I read about on these threads, it is insane.

I'm so glad at the way this thread is going. The last one was a complete whingefest of misandrists trying to one up each other on how awful their lives had been, how many times they had been sexually assaulted (some stories which were frankly unbelievable, and I mean that literally) and shouting down anyone who had a different perspective. Good to see some sensible people speaking up.