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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Would you complain about this? (Police behaviour towards a black and potentially vulnerable 16-year-old girl)

259 replies

Readytoplay · 14/03/2024 01:18

TLDR at the end of the post, as this is long but I feel I have to explain the whole situation

Yesterday afternoon I was on a train, departing from a London Terminal. Just after we started moving, a ticket inspection began. The girl (who was black) in front of me didn’t have a ticket. The ticket inspector (White 40s male) was abrupt; and in my opinion rude; with the young lady who claimed she was 16 and homeless. He asked her if she could pay with a debit card, but she told him that she didn’t have one. He then asked her age and she answered 16. He then scoffed “What, you're 16 and don’t have a bank card”. (For what it’s worth I personally didn’t have a bank account until I was 17- and this was only last decade).

He then asked her where she was going. The girl responded with vague answers, such as: “a few stops” or “not far”. He then asked how she got on the train without a ticket and through the barriers. She told him that she ‘just did’. He then asked for a name and address. The first she refused to give and she repeated that she was homeless for the latter, the inspector answered ‘No you're not’, Before asking for some ID. He then left her for a moment after she claimed she didn’t have any, before coming back with an officer from BTP (also a white 40s male).

Now, I always record any encounter I have with the police directly OR if an encounter is happening in my proximity (this was literally the seat in front) so I started filming but with the camera face down so only sound would be recorded. the police officer showed his badge and began to ask for the same information as the ticket inspector. After she repeated what she had already said, he then asked for some ID, before asking what was in her bag and that he was going to search it.

I was about to intervene at this point as I was getting increasingly uncomfortable with the tone and attitude these adult men were having with this young and likely vulnerable lady. Clearly, someone else felt the same and questioned the way the situation was being approached. I then also voiced my concerns and admitted that I was recording this. The other passenger started to tell the men that they thought how they were behaving was disgusting. I commented that if a 16-year-old minor was claiming to be homeless that shouldn’t they be offering them support? They said they would if they had some identification. I tried to explain that she likely doesn’t have anything due to her circumstances and then the part that really annoyed me: “as if she is homeless, dressed in all those brands”. I.E. doubting her circumstances because was wearing a Nike sweatshirt. WTF.

It ended with the other passenger ranting at the cop, before both the guard and cop got off at the next station. And that was that. They didn’t find any ID on the girl, and all that was in her bag were clothes and other personal essentials.

The girl was left visibly shaken and upset. I tried to see if she was alright. She explained to me that she was staying with her BF. I told her of some organisations to contact if she needed any support (Shelter/ Centerpoint). Before she got off I offered to give her a fiver (normally I wouldn’t give money to strangers, but would have in this case) but she declined.

Now, I have no idea if this girl was or wasn’t homeless. But am I wrong in thinking that the behaviour of the cop/train guard was completely inappropriate? There is very little of me who feels this wasn’t racially motivated. The fact that they searched her bag and the fact that both had an abrupt and aggressive attitude toward her really felt like profiling to me. Yes, the girl could have been more cooperative with some of the questions, but the intense questioning, mixed with the dismissive attitude would have likely made most people not want to cooperate.

I am thinking of sending the recording to both the train operator and BTP to express my concerns with what I witnessed, Manly:

  1. The instant refusal to believe that this child could be homeless and the lack of support.
  2. The racial profiling of a young black female
  3. The aggressive attitude that was used throughout the situation.

I would also like to try and get the child checked up on, however, this is likely going to be difficult as I don’t know any details apart from what she told me and where she got off (which I won’t lie, was a bit further than a ‘couple of stops’) as I am worried that she hasn’t got any support. I am also a bit worried that she’s moving in with a bf as well.

TLDR: a young black girl who claimed she was homeless was aggressively Interrogated by a police officer and ticket inspector. They doubted her claims because she was wearing branded clothing. The girl was left viably shaken as a result.

What would you do?
YABU- Don’t report
YANBU- report

OP posts:
Casperthecheeky · 14/03/2024 01:42

Yeah I would report that OP. A young girl on a train with no money, never mean her colour and they are treating her like that? Shameful. ( And the police are known for racism, not all but they have a bad record plus two men!) . I would hope someone would help my young daughter if she was in trouble on a train and had no money.

Dartmoorcheffy · 14/03/2024 01:48

She had no ticket. Presumably the inspector was checking all the passengers and did not just target her?

CurlsnSunshinetime4tea · 14/03/2024 01:50

regardless of her color or clothing choice how should they assess if indeed she is homeless? should they bring her to the office so they can connect her to social services? or should they simply wave her on through?

UnNiddeRides · 14/03/2024 01:52

She was staying with her boyfriend so not homeless. She was just trying for a free ride.

Readytoplay · 14/03/2024 01:55

Dartmoorcheffy · 14/03/2024 01:48

She had no ticket. Presumably the inspector was checking all the passengers and did not just target her?

It's not that she was challenged for not having a ticket. But more the attitude of both the inspector and the policeman and (the main one for me), refusing to believe her situation. Safeguarding 101: you always believe a person's claims until if and when you have evidence to suggest otherwise.

OP posts:
Readytoplay · 14/03/2024 01:59

CurlsnSunshinetime4tea · 14/03/2024 01:50

regardless of her color or clothing choice how should they assess if indeed she is homeless? should they bring her to the office so they can connect her to social services? or should they simply wave her on through?

Well yes, I feel the police should of put her in touch with SS. Pretty sure that they do have a responsibility to do so.

OP posts:
araiwa · 14/03/2024 02:00

It wasn't profiling

It was probably the thousandth time they've heard the same story

UnNiddeRides · 14/03/2024 02:02

Their evidence was that she was on a train without a ticket, having ‘just did’ get through the barriers.

Readytoplay · 14/03/2024 02:02

UnNiddeRides · 14/03/2024 01:52

She was staying with her boyfriend so not homeless. She was just trying for a free ride.

And how do you know that she wasn't chucked out earlier that day? You don't. This is likely why she was dismissive with anwering their questions, because she knew that whatever she said would be nitpicked and twisted.

OP posts:
Kinneddar · 14/03/2024 02:04

araiwa · 14/03/2024 02:00

It wasn't profiling

It was probably the thousandth time they've heard the same story

100% this

You're assuming her story was true OP. It could have been tactics to get away with fare dodging

I cant see anything racist at all in what you describe

UnNiddeRides · 14/03/2024 02:05

She told you she was staying with her boyfriend, not that she had been & was kicked out.

Kedece2410 · 14/03/2024 02:05

Readytoplay · 14/03/2024 02:02

And how do you know that she wasn't chucked out earlier that day? You don't. This is likely why she was dismissive with anwering their questions, because she knew that whatever she said would be nitpicked and twisted.

And how do you know she wasn't just lying to them

MariaVT65 · 14/03/2024 02:06

Sorry op I have voted YABU for 2 reasons:

-These inspectors will have heard many different ‘tales’ every day of why someone doesn’t have a ticket and is trying to get a free ride. This will include many young people. I’ve also seen a few cases where young people have bought a ticket at student railcard price and then ‘forgotten’ their railcard etc. I do agree with the PP’s POV that she’s not homeless if she is living with her bf.

-I’m white, and I once had an issue where I missed a connecting train due to my first train being delayed. I was told by the ticket office to get on a different specific train. The ticket inspector on that train then didn’t automatically believe me that my original train had been delayed and called a colleague to double check. Honestly they hear so many excuses for not having a correct ticket.

user1473878824 · 14/03/2024 02:10

Sweet summer child…

Readytoplay · 14/03/2024 02:11

UnNiddeRides · 14/03/2024 02:05

She told you she was staying with her boyfriend, not that she had been & was kicked out.

Sorry if it's unclear but she said she was moving in with her BF. (hence the bag of clothing). So wasn't already saying there.

OP posts:
Readytoplay · 14/03/2024 02:13

Kedece2410 · 14/03/2024 02:05

And how do you know she wasn't just lying to them

I don't as I say in my OP. but I found the lack of safeguarding that a police officer refused to believe a childs claim to be homeless worrying.

OP posts:
DdraigGoch · 14/03/2024 02:17

If you fail to produce a ticket you will be asked for payment. If you fail to pay you will be asked for a name and address. If you fail to provide a genuine name and address you have committed an offence, at which point the police get involved.

If a minor is travelling on trains with no ticket and can't or won't provide an address it is highly likely that they are either a runaway or are involved in county lines. Either way the police should detain them until a responsible adult can be found, not just waved on their merry way.

WandaWonder · 14/03/2024 02:18

well first of you have racially profiled her yourself, if you want to report then do so but your whole OP is racist and a whole other dictionary you dont need us to giver you permission to report nor a round of applause

UnNiddeRides · 14/03/2024 02:20

DdraigGoch · 14/03/2024 02:17

If you fail to produce a ticket you will be asked for payment. If you fail to pay you will be asked for a name and address. If you fail to provide a genuine name and address you have committed an offence, at which point the police get involved.

If a minor is travelling on trains with no ticket and can't or won't provide an address it is highly likely that they are either a runaway or are involved in county lines. Either way the police should detain them until a responsible adult can be found, not just waved on their merry way.

It’s more likely that they just don’t want to pay their fare.

milesmachine · 14/03/2024 02:29

OP I would assume you don't travel by public transport around London regularly?

As someone who gets the train in and out almost daily I can say at least once a week a ticket inspector will find someone (usually young female ime) with some story about forgetting a ticket or a sad situation

I'm afraid they've heard it all before and it sounds like she wasn't homeless but staying with her boyfriend and was a bit obstructive when rightly challenged on her fate dodging

It doesn't seem worthy of reporting, nor profiling to me

YouDidntEvenAskIfSheWasThereMoriarty · 14/03/2024 02:39

I would report this. I don't think it was appropriate at all.

Just because someone is a ticket inspector, it doesn't mean they aren't a dickhead.

TrudyProud · 14/03/2024 02:48

@Readytoplay
Please report this. The behaviour of the btp officer is terrible especially given the push for ending violence against women and girls (they have all been given training). The girl at best is homeless, at worst could be being exploited (county lines etc) which might be why they searched her bags HOWEVER if you felt uneasy watching it I can only imagine how she felt experiencing it as such I'd report and let their internal processes determine if they were wrong.

Imo it speaks volumes that they stopped their search once a member of the public intervened and you said you were recording. That to me suggests they knew they overstepped the rules of engagement.

carerneedshelp · 14/03/2024 02:57

Report it. You felt uneasy with the way they were treating her as did other passengers who stepped in. That alone is enough for me.

Doesn't matter what the girl did whether she was lying or not. It's completely irrelevant. She should be treated reasonably regardless.

Meadowfinch · 14/03/2024 03:10

I think you are very naive.
She didn't have a ticket, it isn't easy to get past the ticket barriers without one and they are just doing their job. And she refused to give her name and address.
She wasn't homeless, she was staying with her boyfriend. Which if she was 16 should have been enough to make the police officer ask questions. Grooming, county lines, missing from home.
As a minor, if she had explained that she had no money, they would have taken her name and address and given her the option to pay later.
Teens can be foolish, it happens but you can't expect them to give every fare dodging teen a free ride.

Orangesandsatsumas · 14/03/2024 03:19

It doesn't sound awful to me but I wasn't there so I think it must be worse than your post has made it sound, given you weren't the only one who picked up on it. If it made you feel uneasy relief.

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