Would you complain about this? (Police behaviour towards a black and potentially vulnerable 16-year-old girl)

[Readytoplay]

TLDR at the end of the post, as this is long but I feel I have to explain the whole situation

Yesterday afternoon I was on a train, departing from a London Terminal. Just after we started moving, a ticket inspection began. The girl (who was black) in front of me didn’t have a ticket. The ticket inspector (White 40s male) was abrupt; and in my opinion rude; with the young lady who claimed she was 16 and homeless. He asked her if she could pay with a debit card, but she told him that she didn’t have one. He then asked her age and she answered 16. He then scoffed “What, you're 16 and don’t have a bank card”. (For what it’s worth I personally didn’t have a bank account until I was 17- and this was only last decade).

He then asked her where she was going. The girl responded with vague answers, such as: “a few stops” or “not far”. He then asked how she got on the train without a ticket and through the barriers. She told him that she ‘just did’. He then asked for a name and address. The first she refused to give and she repeated that she was homeless for the latter, the inspector answered ‘No you're not’, Before asking for some ID. He then left her for a moment after she claimed she didn’t have any, before coming back with an officer from BTP (also a white 40s male).

Now, I always record any encounter I have with the police directly OR if an encounter is happening in my proximity (this was literally the seat in front) so I started filming but with the camera face down so only sound would be recorded. the police officer showed his badge and began to ask for the same information as the ticket inspector. After she repeated what she had already said, he then asked for some ID, before asking what was in her bag and that he was going to search it.

I was about to intervene at this point as I was getting increasingly uncomfortable with the tone and attitude these adult men were having with this young and likely vulnerable lady. Clearly, someone else felt the same and questioned the way the situation was being approached. I then also voiced my concerns and admitted that I was recording this. The other passenger started to tell the men that they thought how they were behaving was disgusting. I commented that if a 16-year-old minor was claiming to be homeless that shouldn’t they be offering them support? They said they would if they had some identification. I tried to explain that she likely doesn’t have anything due to her circumstances and then the part that really annoyed me: “as if she is homeless, dressed in all those brands”. I.E. doubting her circumstances because was wearing a Nike sweatshirt. WTF.

It ended with the other passenger ranting at the cop, before both the guard and cop got off at the next station. And that was that. They didn’t find any ID on the girl, and all that was in her bag were clothes and other personal essentials.

The girl was left visibly shaken and upset. I tried to see if she was alright. She explained to me that she was staying with her BF. I told her of some organisations to contact if she needed any support (Shelter/ Centerpoint). Before she got off I offered to give her a fiver (normally I wouldn’t give money to strangers, but would have in this case) but she declined.

Now, I have no idea if this girl was or wasn’t homeless. But am I wrong in thinking that the behaviour of the cop/train guard was completely inappropriate? There is very little of me who feels this wasn’t racially motivated. The fact that they searched her bag and the fact that both had an abrupt and aggressive attitude toward her really felt like profiling to me. Yes, the girl could have been more cooperative with some of the questions, but the intense questioning, mixed with the dismissive attitude would have likely made most people not want to cooperate.

I am thinking of sending the recording to both the train operator and BTP to express my concerns with what I witnessed, Manly:

1. The instant refusal to believe that this child could be homeless and the lack of support.
2. The racial profiling of a young black female
3. The aggressive attitude that was used throughout the situation.

I would also like to try and get the child checked up on, however, this is likely going to be difficult as I don’t know any details apart from what she told me and where she got off (which I won’t lie, was a bit further than a ‘couple of stops’) as I am worried that she hasn’t got any support. I am also a bit worried that she’s moving in with a bf as well.

TLDR: a young black girl who claimed she was homeless was aggressively Interrogated by a police officer and ticket inspector. They doubted her claims because she was wearing branded clothing. The girl was left viably shaken as a result.

What would you do?
YABU- Don’t report
YANBU- report

It does feel strange that they left the train without pursuing and that's one of the reasons why I would report it and submit the video.
Thank you, OOP. This is what allyship looks like.

I wonder how often she visits her boyfriend and how she usually gets there.

I agree they should have shown some compassion. Yes it's wrong to try and scam a free train ticket but if a young person says they're homeless then isn't it more important to offer support for that than to be heavy handed about them not having a ticket?

Also, even if her story turned out to be false, you could rest easy knowing you tried to safeguard who you thought was a vulnerable person.

Keep on being you OP, you're obviously a good one.

Surely if you were SO concerned you could have paid for her ticket yourself to end this terrible interrogation she was subject to/was asked reasonable questions to establish the circumstances🙄

In all fairness I have heard ticket inspectors talk the same way to white teenagers without tickets , there were 3 girls about 14. No ID, won’t give names/ addresses. It’s tricky as essentially there’s nothing they can do apart from talk to them so they try and make it awkward so they don’t repeat the behaviour.

Please report it, there are so many vulnerable flags in here. The BTP at the least she have started from the point she was a vulnerable child (is it a boyfriend she's going to stay with - why are they so far away and not helping her? If they suspected county lines they have to treat the child as a victim not the perpetrator).

If it was just about the ticket they'd have written up a fine and that would be it.

I used to work on the railway and it’s three fails for fare evasion. Do you have a ticket, will you buy a ticket, if no to both then name and address please so you can be reported for the offence of travelling without a ticket because trains are not free and this is part of the reason we all pay so much to use them. I’d imagine they were searching her for evidence of an address without which they are within their rights to arrest her under the necessity of establishing her identity and address if she is refusing to give details. But you know, well done for accusing an innocent person following process in their difficult job of being racist. What a hero you are.

Homeless people can really afford branded clothes. Clearly she was lying. If she had bought a ticket, there wouldn’t have been this problem.

Are you joking OP?

I sincerely hope that if you're ever the victim of a serious assault or terrible misfortune and need police assistance, then some cunt doesn't come over and start filming it because, you know, they always like to film the police for Facebook and insta.

Jesus.

And get real. This girl wasn't homeless. She's a fare dodger spinning a yarn. Don't be so fucking naive.

But we can all say we are homeless to avoid prosecution when fare dodging. Hoards of people try that tact of not disclosing their address..Are the rest of us supposed to just pay higher fares to cover it?

How do they write up a fine without an address? Hoards and hoards of teens try to fare dodge I’ve watched them do it.

Now I’m all for calling out racism and police if needed. These people were however checking everybody’s ticket and trying to deal with fare dodging which is their job.

Op clearly wants some hero worship which makes me feel uncomfortable.

Ticket inspectors and BTP are pretty tough in London. Numerous of my DS very young-looking white friends have had a very hard time from them when they’ve forgotten to touch in with their Oyster card or forgotten their card all together. DS 14 yo mate got a £70 fine, others have been questioned agressively for a long time. I’m genuinely surprised they didn’t pursue this and hassled her further (which maybe they would have if you hadn’t been filming)

Do you not travel on trains often @Readytoplay ?

I don't think I've been on any busy train recently where someone hasn't tried to get away without paying. The most recent was a (white) man in his twenties supposedly on his way to visit his sick mother in hospital. He was asked to leave at the next station.

You shouldn't be filming minors btw. Safeguarding 101.

Did the whole train stand up and cheer?

So just to add in case my post wasn’t clear ; I don’t think this is racism, it’s how they approach ALL passengers without a ticket

Both my ds and dd as teens were spoken to like scum by ticket inspectors.
Not all, but the job does attract a few nasty bullies.

My ds once jumped on the train in front of me and sat opposite the door. The guard didn’t realise I was getting on behind ds and barked at him to move down the train, obviously thought he was going to jump off at his stop without paying. He was embarrassed when I made it clear I was with ds and we’d sit where we liked.
Dd was thrown off a train because she jumped on the train about to leave knowing she could buy a ticket on the train. Many people did. The guard said she had to go to the ticket office which meant she would miss the train. She was 12! It was winter and she had been to an after school activity.
I met her from the next train and complained to the guard who was a nice person and advised dd in that situation to say she’d lost her money in future and they would take her address and send me a bill.
I would have been pleased for someone like you to advocate for my dd OP.
It was pre mobiles and I stood anxiously at the station wondering where dd was.

YANBU for being alarmed at two men bullying a young girl, but YABU for assuming it was because she's black.

I get the train a lot and you see people like this a lot. Refuse to give proper answers etc.

I've seen a near identical scenario. Only i know the young black person (a boy in my case)... was lying through his teeth, because a) he's on my train every day b) he's not fucking 16, he's 20 and c) i know this because he lives with his mum, dad and two little sisters in the next road from mine!!

The police are trained to spot the liars.

Didn't see any racial profiling there? I expect they get lots of ticket avoiders on the tubes and, quite rightly, try and get their details. They also probably get a lot of people lying to them in order to avoid giving out their details or paying the fare. None of what you wrote sounded racially motivated (you're the one who sounds overexcited about her colour) but just trying to get the fare. Basically, she shouldn't be on the tube without paying. If you break the law, you should be scared of the consequences and I don't see why you're making such a fuss here; hopefully she won't do it again.

Sounds like you are always looking for trouble.

Were you born under a stone? Young people of all races dodge fares ALL THE Time in London. Stand by the gates for 10 mins to see the little darlings all push through, then try to police it love. The inspectors have seen it a 100 times+. You do your job and let them do theirs HTH

If anything, you've probably made her more unsafe. If she is homeless/at risk of county lines or exploitation, they've lost the opportunity to explore that with her because the focus moved to you and the other passengers kicking up a fuss.

Racial profiling when they were working their way methodically through the train checking everyone's tickets, like all ticket inspectors do? No, OP, you blew it with me when you took that line.

I think you need to step back from your saviour complex. Are you hoping to become some kind of Insta caped crusader?

If it was just about the ticket they'd have written up a fine and that would be it.

How can they write up a fine if someone refuses to give a name and address?

You are libel for a fine if you don't buy a ticket before boarding a train. It's the law.