Would you complain about this? (Police behaviour towards a black and potentially vulnerable 16-year-old girl)

[Readytoplay]

TLDR at the end of the post, as this is long but I feel I have to explain the whole situation

Yesterday afternoon I was on a train, departing from a London Terminal. Just after we started moving, a ticket inspection began. The girl (who was black) in front of me didn’t have a ticket. The ticket inspector (White 40s male) was abrupt; and in my opinion rude; with the young lady who claimed she was 16 and homeless. He asked her if she could pay with a debit card, but she told him that she didn’t have one. He then asked her age and she answered 16. He then scoffed “What, you're 16 and don’t have a bank card”. (For what it’s worth I personally didn’t have a bank account until I was 17- and this was only last decade).

He then asked her where she was going. The girl responded with vague answers, such as: “a few stops” or “not far”. He then asked how she got on the train without a ticket and through the barriers. She told him that she ‘just did’. He then asked for a name and address. The first she refused to give and she repeated that she was homeless for the latter, the inspector answered ‘No you're not’, Before asking for some ID. He then left her for a moment after she claimed she didn’t have any, before coming back with an officer from BTP (also a white 40s male).

Now, I always record any encounter I have with the police directly OR if an encounter is happening in my proximity (this was literally the seat in front) so I started filming but with the camera face down so only sound would be recorded. the police officer showed his badge and began to ask for the same information as the ticket inspector. After she repeated what she had already said, he then asked for some ID, before asking what was in her bag and that he was going to search it.

I was about to intervene at this point as I was getting increasingly uncomfortable with the tone and attitude these adult men were having with this young and likely vulnerable lady. Clearly, someone else felt the same and questioned the way the situation was being approached. I then also voiced my concerns and admitted that I was recording this. The other passenger started to tell the men that they thought how they were behaving was disgusting. I commented that if a 16-year-old minor was claiming to be homeless that shouldn’t they be offering them support? They said they would if they had some identification. I tried to explain that she likely doesn’t have anything due to her circumstances and then the part that really annoyed me: “as if she is homeless, dressed in all those brands”. I.E. doubting her circumstances because was wearing a Nike sweatshirt. WTF.

It ended with the other passenger ranting at the cop, before both the guard and cop got off at the next station. And that was that. They didn’t find any ID on the girl, and all that was in her bag were clothes and other personal essentials.

The girl was left visibly shaken and upset. I tried to see if she was alright. She explained to me that she was staying with her BF. I told her of some organisations to contact if she needed any support (Shelter/ Centerpoint). Before she got off I offered to give her a fiver (normally I wouldn’t give money to strangers, but would have in this case) but she declined.

Now, I have no idea if this girl was or wasn’t homeless. But am I wrong in thinking that the behaviour of the cop/train guard was completely inappropriate? There is very little of me who feels this wasn’t racially motivated. The fact that they searched her bag and the fact that both had an abrupt and aggressive attitude toward her really felt like profiling to me. Yes, the girl could have been more cooperative with some of the questions, but the intense questioning, mixed with the dismissive attitude would have likely made most people not want to cooperate.

I am thinking of sending the recording to both the train operator and BTP to express my concerns with what I witnessed, Manly:

1. The instant refusal to believe that this child could be homeless and the lack of support.
2. The racial profiling of a young black female
3. The aggressive attitude that was used throughout the situation.

I would also like to try and get the child checked up on, however, this is likely going to be difficult as I don’t know any details apart from what she told me and where she got off (which I won’t lie, was a bit further than a ‘couple of stops’) as I am worried that she hasn’t got any support. I am also a bit worried that she’s moving in with a bf as well.

TLDR: a young black girl who claimed she was homeless was aggressively Interrogated by a police officer and ticket inspector. They doubted her claims because she was wearing branded clothing. The girl was left viably shaken as a result.

What would you do?
YABU- Don’t report
YANBU- report

Definitely report it. OP you're not being naive. To those that have suggested that - I have seen frequently on transport that white young people are let off with a "remember it next time". So yes racist, abuse of power. Searching the bag is a big overreach.
Well done for intervening.

The fact that she gave vague answers just shows that she was not being entirely truthful.
Just tell them what stop you got on, what your full name and d/b is and they can clarify things.

The police/inspectors very likely left it because other were getting involved and don't want things to unnecessarily escalate.

They refuse because they don't want a fine.
If you are on a train without a card, or money, or Apple Pay or Google Pay or cash.... you are bunking the fare aren't you?

Exactly this. Shame on anyone thinking the OP is being unreasonable. Police are the biggest gang of bullies out there. Always question authority. It’s not about her not having a ticket - yes, not having a ticket is wrong, but that doesn’t mean you should then be spoken to like shit. Clearly there was something going on for this young person - which another passenger picked up on also.

OP please don’t ever get a job where you have to apply any critical thinking.

Fare dodger 101.

I feel so sorry for anyone trying to do any job where they’re going to face idiots filming them.

Also yes report it. Then a full investigation can be done and the girls true circumstances and intentions can be clarified. At best you've helped a young vulnerable girl or at worst helped the ticket inspectors confirm that 'the young girl' was not in fact homeless and just using every old excuse to get away with paying for a ticket.

What you’re saying is not true. She has been caught in the act of committing an offence and is refusing to give details. There are obvious grounds and legality for a search. They could have just gone ahead and arrested her so how you can say it’s an overreach baffles me. The police have these powers specifically because she is breaking the law. If you don’t want to be told off then either buy a ticket or don’t travel. Maybe we should just not enforce any rules at all and we can all just do what we want, sure that will end well.

Thank goodness for the other person on the train. I thought you’d never intervene

I think he was just doing his job, to be honest. I’ve seen youngsters trying it on on trains as well.

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Right...And if she'd just been kicked out of him with the clothes she had, she wouldn't really be homeless, would she, because some of those clothes are branded.

Honestly 🙄

How was this racist? She didn’t have a ticket and was obstructive to the train personnel. I’m sure that if anyone from any skin colour didn’t have a ticket and gave the same answers they’d also have the train police checking their bag. As a child she should have been taken to a police station to get help as she said she was homeless to the police but then told you she was living with her boyfriend. The train employees deal with lies all the time in their job.

Firstly, ticket inspectors are not the police. It doesn't sound great to me, and I've come across plenty of train company staff who are very rude and dismissive, including to young kids. I get that they've heard every excuse in the book but I do think what you described sounds excessively aggressive.

Why does it matter that she was black

You sound a bit naive OP. This is exactly the kind of thing I’d try to do as a teen. She may well have been known to them for doing it repeatedly.

If you were worried about her, you could have paid for her ticket. Not sure why if you believed her, you left her to deal with that and your only response was to start filming.

If you were so concerned OP you should just have paid for her ticket .

She's a fare dodger so why should she be treated with kid gloves because she's black.

YANBU

If a 16yo girl posted on here that she was homeless, we would all provide her with support and try and help in any way we can.

Of course, passengers try and pull fast ones on the train all of the time but they do on here too.
It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t offer them any support.

I would be extremely concerned if a 16yo said she was homeless and especially as a police officer for my own peace of mind I would try and help by encouraging her to ring the station or a different organisation that can help.

It is very well known that non white people are treated differently.
It is very well known that children are often perceived as being much older emotionally and therefore dealt with much more harshly than if this was a white child.

I will never forget when that poor 15/16yo vulnerable girl got stripped searched at school whilst on her period because they thought they could smell cannabis (they found nothing) and the police and school admitted her race was a reason for doing so.

I would absolutely report it.

Both men need training on what to do if they encounter a potentially vulnerable child, regardless of whether this has anything to do with race or not.

Her colour had nothing to do with this how strange.

Should they not question her not having a ticket because she's black?

Should all black people be allowed to do what they want incase it's deemed racist?

Yes there are lots of horrible racists about.

However imagine how many times this guy deals with people of all ages sexes and colours who say they don't have a ticket? He must be fed up.

It’s not irrelevant if she is lying and trying to scam everyone. Not sure what being black has to do with it. She got on a train by presumably tail gating the person in front at the barriers.

It sounds like she knows what she is doing.

I do think it’s bad, but tbh, they probably see this on every train journey and are sick of it. How did she get into London with no train fare money?

My partner works for BTP. He spends a lot of time driving vulnerable young people back to their homes (often institutions). Often when they are called to a child without a ticket, they are missing or involved in county lines. They should've detained her and found a responsible adult, either parents or SS, from what I can gather.

I think it’s difficult for me to judge without actually seeing it. People travelling without a ticket is a huge problem and I’m sure they’re utterly sick of trying to do their job and be lied to constantly.

You can report it for investigation but it sounds as if your judgement may be skewed in this situation.

why do you always record interactions with the police?

it sounds as if you are expecting them to be unprofessional and so this could just be you unconsciously trying to prove your own biases.

I have not read the thread yet, but I presume it is full of people saying there is no way this is racist, or that you are playing the ‘race card’. MN does not believe racism exists unless it involves the use of overt verbal racial slurs.

My parents (non-white) were treated appallingly by Eurostar staff once. They had boarded a carriage at the wrong end, even though a white couple had just got on the same way without censure. The guard was so rude to my parents. To me, it was obvious because they looked ‘foreign’, my mum had a head scarf on etc. But there is no way of proving this. Sometimes racism is expressed by a dirty look or a shift in tone and it is impossible to prove and nobody will believe it.

I will read the thread now and I might be pleasantly surprised, but I’m sure it will be a litany of racism denial.

Plus how would they know how old she was without being shown ID.? A young person can be anything from 13 to 19 looks wise, you just wouldn’t be able to accurately assess it. She may have been a young looking adult with a homeless story that explains away a lack of readiness to provide an address. Hence avoiding a fine.