Would you complain about this? (Police behaviour towards a black and potentially vulnerable 16-year-old girl)

[Readytoplay]

TLDR at the end of the post, as this is long but I feel I have to explain the whole situation

Yesterday afternoon I was on a train, departing from a London Terminal. Just after we started moving, a ticket inspection began. The girl (who was black) in front of me didn’t have a ticket. The ticket inspector (White 40s male) was abrupt; and in my opinion rude; with the young lady who claimed she was 16 and homeless. He asked her if she could pay with a debit card, but she told him that she didn’t have one. He then asked her age and she answered 16. He then scoffed “What, you're 16 and don’t have a bank card”. (For what it’s worth I personally didn’t have a bank account until I was 17- and this was only last decade).

He then asked her where she was going. The girl responded with vague answers, such as: “a few stops” or “not far”. He then asked how she got on the train without a ticket and through the barriers. She told him that she ‘just did’. He then asked for a name and address. The first she refused to give and she repeated that she was homeless for the latter, the inspector answered ‘No you're not’, Before asking for some ID. He then left her for a moment after she claimed she didn’t have any, before coming back with an officer from BTP (also a white 40s male).

Now, I always record any encounter I have with the police directly OR if an encounter is happening in my proximity (this was literally the seat in front) so I started filming but with the camera face down so only sound would be recorded. the police officer showed his badge and began to ask for the same information as the ticket inspector. After she repeated what she had already said, he then asked for some ID, before asking what was in her bag and that he was going to search it.

I was about to intervene at this point as I was getting increasingly uncomfortable with the tone and attitude these adult men were having with this young and likely vulnerable lady. Clearly, someone else felt the same and questioned the way the situation was being approached. I then also voiced my concerns and admitted that I was recording this. The other passenger started to tell the men that they thought how they were behaving was disgusting. I commented that if a 16-year-old minor was claiming to be homeless that shouldn’t they be offering them support? They said they would if they had some identification. I tried to explain that she likely doesn’t have anything due to her circumstances and then the part that really annoyed me: “as if she is homeless, dressed in all those brands”. I.E. doubting her circumstances because was wearing a Nike sweatshirt. WTF.

It ended with the other passenger ranting at the cop, before both the guard and cop got off at the next station. And that was that. They didn’t find any ID on the girl, and all that was in her bag were clothes and other personal essentials.

The girl was left visibly shaken and upset. I tried to see if she was alright. She explained to me that she was staying with her BF. I told her of some organisations to contact if she needed any support (Shelter/ Centerpoint). Before she got off I offered to give her a fiver (normally I wouldn’t give money to strangers, but would have in this case) but she declined.

Now, I have no idea if this girl was or wasn’t homeless. But am I wrong in thinking that the behaviour of the cop/train guard was completely inappropriate? There is very little of me who feels this wasn’t racially motivated. The fact that they searched her bag and the fact that both had an abrupt and aggressive attitude toward her really felt like profiling to me. Yes, the girl could have been more cooperative with some of the questions, but the intense questioning, mixed with the dismissive attitude would have likely made most people not want to cooperate.

I am thinking of sending the recording to both the train operator and BTP to express my concerns with what I witnessed, Manly:

1. The instant refusal to believe that this child could be homeless and the lack of support.
2. The racial profiling of a young black female
3. The aggressive attitude that was used throughout the situation.

I would also like to try and get the child checked up on, however, this is likely going to be difficult as I don’t know any details apart from what she told me and where she got off (which I won’t lie, was a bit further than a ‘couple of stops’) as I am worried that she hasn’t got any support. I am also a bit worried that she’s moving in with a bf as well.

TLDR: a young black girl who claimed she was homeless was aggressively Interrogated by a police officer and ticket inspector. They doubted her claims because she was wearing branded clothing. The girl was left viably shaken as a result.

What would you do?
YABU- Don’t report
YANBU- report

Bleeding liberals I think is the term for people like you.

Or naive.

I wonder how scammers con money out of people and then I read something like this.

Plus a decade ago isn't comparable.

This. Why should we always believe every sob story. She could be doing this on a daily basis.

Agreed

The OP said they record all interactions with the police, be that thier own interaction or other people's. So it doesn't seem like they started recording because they were concerned but because they always do. The fact that they record all police interactions is a bit strange.

Well done to you and the other passengers sticking up for her and safeguarding a child OP.

100% that the police officer, after being told she was homeless, should have stopped treating her as a fare dodging case and started treating it as a safeguarding case and got her some help! What if she was younger than 16 too, she might have been travelling to see an older man and wanted to hide her age under his instruction for all they know.

I believe 100% that a middle class white 16 year old girl on her own claiming homelessness would have been treated as a vulnerable child.

Report.

Sorry quote the wrong poster

This

You lost me at you always secretly film police anywhere near you.

Fare dodgers have a million stories.

Anyone can claim to be homeless. It’s the ticket inspector’s job to ensure everyone has paid their fare.

Its only racial profiling if they only asked her if she had a ticket because she was black. They always ask everyone for their ticket.

If they had done nothing wrong why didn't they detain her, rather than leaving when everyone said they were being dicks?
I'd say it's more likely than not she wasn't homeless and said that to stop them sending her a fine etc. But it's not right what they did. As people say, they should signpost her to services and offer support if she said she was.

The answer is simple. Anyone without a ticket should be taken off the train at the next station and have their ‘problem’ dealt with.

YABU and if I you had a spare fiver to give away you should have just bought her ticket to save everyone, including us, the hassle of this non event.

You admit yourself that she lied about where she was going to so why is it ok for you to doubt her story but not the people whose job it is to ask questions?

I think you report it OP because it sounds like this girl was vulnerable and needed support which was not forthcoming. Sounds like a county lines or something.
But I can't tell how much race played into this but I am worried about the welfare of this child.

There are two parts to this, really.

Ticket inspector - he was just doing his job. The young woman had boarded the train without a ticket and with no plans/means to buy one on the train. She must have known there'd be a risk of her being challenged for this. He is not a social worker, he is a low-paid customer service worker; his remit in this aspect of his role is simply to ensure everyone on the train is paying for the right to be there. I travel on the train a lot and the ticket inspectors will challenge anyone without a ticket, or even without the correct ticket, regardless of race.

Police - this is where there should have been proactive intervention if the woman appeared to be vulnerable. They shouldn't have searched her bag in the middle of a train carriage. He was being unreasonable and it does sound as though racism was in play.

I commute on a 1hr train journey daily, and regularly overhear conversations like this when the ticket inspectors come round - similar stories with vagueness about where they got on/where they will get off, that they don't have money on them etc. They have these conversations with men and women of all ages and ethnicities.

I think you've got a misguided idea of what a child is.

At 16 You can give consent and have sex.
You can be prosecuted for having sex with someone who is under 16.
You can apply for your own passport with a parent’s consent.
You can change your name.
You can be prosecuted for neglecting a child in your care.

You can also be prosecuted for fare evasion.

I dnt think the colour of her skin is relevant here.

i would have intervened, paid for her ticket and tried to offer support

i did a soup kitchen last night and a lot of the street homeless were wearing branded adidas/nike clothing

16 is extremely young. If she is homeless, she wont have bank cards etc. keep an eye out for her if you travel that route again

What I find odd in all this is the op records any interaction with the police or anything the police do near them.
I've been arrested several times, detained without arrest , been attacked by police officers , been kettled, been prevented from walking down certain streets without good reason,seen people seriously injured by the police and I don't record interactions with them.
You sound like the type of person who goes looking for issues and provoking trouble

When did I mention it was the ticket inspectors duty? There was a police officer who was called to intervene, when they were informed she was homeless they should have treated her like a vulnerable homeless teen at that point. Do you think the police officers response to a young girl saying she's homeless was adequate?

I think the only mistake the police did was to not escort her off the train.

You've had all this happen to you from police and you don't think all police interactions should be recorded whenever humanly possible... 🤨

I used to commute into London daily. My experience was that ticket staff used to get a fair amount of abuse from fare dodgers who lied regularly.

I don't believe their behaviour was either racist or sexist from your description. This sounds typical of transactions I've seen when the fare dodger did not co-operate and would not pay regardless of the colour or sex or age of the fare dodger. The only difference is that she was left on the train to her destination wheras in my experience they would be ejected from the train at the next station.
You helped her get away with it.

Of course, when she claimed to be homeless the police should have got off the train with her at the next stop and directed her to the appropriate service (or even taken her), but I would bet a reasonable amount of money that the ticket-dodger would have been extremely unhappy about that.

Why didn't u just pay for her ticket.then?