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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Would you complain about this? (Police behaviour towards a black and potentially vulnerable 16-year-old girl)

259 replies

Readytoplay · 14/03/2024 01:18

TLDR at the end of the post, as this is long but I feel I have to explain the whole situation

Yesterday afternoon I was on a train, departing from a London Terminal. Just after we started moving, a ticket inspection began. The girl (who was black) in front of me didn’t have a ticket. The ticket inspector (White 40s male) was abrupt; and in my opinion rude; with the young lady who claimed she was 16 and homeless. He asked her if she could pay with a debit card, but she told him that she didn’t have one. He then asked her age and she answered 16. He then scoffed “What, you're 16 and don’t have a bank card”. (For what it’s worth I personally didn’t have a bank account until I was 17- and this was only last decade).

He then asked her where she was going. The girl responded with vague answers, such as: “a few stops” or “not far”. He then asked how she got on the train without a ticket and through the barriers. She told him that she ‘just did’. He then asked for a name and address. The first she refused to give and she repeated that she was homeless for the latter, the inspector answered ‘No you're not’, Before asking for some ID. He then left her for a moment after she claimed she didn’t have any, before coming back with an officer from BTP (also a white 40s male).

Now, I always record any encounter I have with the police directly OR if an encounter is happening in my proximity (this was literally the seat in front) so I started filming but with the camera face down so only sound would be recorded. the police officer showed his badge and began to ask for the same information as the ticket inspector. After she repeated what she had already said, he then asked for some ID, before asking what was in her bag and that he was going to search it.

I was about to intervene at this point as I was getting increasingly uncomfortable with the tone and attitude these adult men were having with this young and likely vulnerable lady. Clearly, someone else felt the same and questioned the way the situation was being approached. I then also voiced my concerns and admitted that I was recording this. The other passenger started to tell the men that they thought how they were behaving was disgusting. I commented that if a 16-year-old minor was claiming to be homeless that shouldn’t they be offering them support? They said they would if they had some identification. I tried to explain that she likely doesn’t have anything due to her circumstances and then the part that really annoyed me: “as if she is homeless, dressed in all those brands”. I.E. doubting her circumstances because was wearing a Nike sweatshirt. WTF.

It ended with the other passenger ranting at the cop, before both the guard and cop got off at the next station. And that was that. They didn’t find any ID on the girl, and all that was in her bag were clothes and other personal essentials.

The girl was left visibly shaken and upset. I tried to see if she was alright. She explained to me that she was staying with her BF. I told her of some organisations to contact if she needed any support (Shelter/ Centerpoint). Before she got off I offered to give her a fiver (normally I wouldn’t give money to strangers, but would have in this case) but she declined.

Now, I have no idea if this girl was or wasn’t homeless. But am I wrong in thinking that the behaviour of the cop/train guard was completely inappropriate? There is very little of me who feels this wasn’t racially motivated. The fact that they searched her bag and the fact that both had an abrupt and aggressive attitude toward her really felt like profiling to me. Yes, the girl could have been more cooperative with some of the questions, but the intense questioning, mixed with the dismissive attitude would have likely made most people not want to cooperate.

I am thinking of sending the recording to both the train operator and BTP to express my concerns with what I witnessed, Manly:

  1. The instant refusal to believe that this child could be homeless and the lack of support.
  2. The racial profiling of a young black female
  3. The aggressive attitude that was used throughout the situation.

I would also like to try and get the child checked up on, however, this is likely going to be difficult as I don’t know any details apart from what she told me and where she got off (which I won’t lie, was a bit further than a ‘couple of stops’) as I am worried that she hasn’t got any support. I am also a bit worried that she’s moving in with a bf as well.

TLDR: a young black girl who claimed she was homeless was aggressively Interrogated by a police officer and ticket inspector. They doubted her claims because she was wearing branded clothing. The girl was left viably shaken as a result.

What would you do?
YABU- Don’t report
YANBU- report

OP posts:
RoseBucket · 21/03/2024 04:55

Iwasafool · 15/03/2024 09:22

She wouldn't give her name, she wouldn't give her address, do you imagine she would have cheerfully said, "OK" and gone with the officer at the next station? She'd have kicked up a fuss, people like you would have joined in and you'd have had something great to film wouldn't you. There is every reason to believe if he'd tried to arrest her she would have refused to move, if he'd laid hands on her he'd be accused of assault. She should have cooperated, given her name, given the address she was going to be staying at. She created this situation and you joined in and supported her behaviour.

This

Strictly1 · 21/03/2024 05:47

Guavafish1 · 14/03/2024 05:09

Disagree with those that said its not your business or they were only doing their job.

The fact you felt uncomfortable enough to record and others came to intervene shows its abnormal.

Its seen many people being stopped without having a ticket but never did I feel I needed to intervene or record. Most of the time, they are stopped and escorted of the train.

But the OP says she records all interactions with police which suggests it happens quite a bit. I can’t recall a time I’ve interacted with the police. It seems the OP was already against police before the interaction started.

ittakes2 · 21/03/2024 05:52

I’m sorry I am a bit confused. I just would have offered to pay her ticket rather than watch her go through that and film etc.

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 21/03/2024 05:54

YouDidntEvenAskIfSheWasThereMoriarty · 21/03/2024 03:47

They shouldn't be doing the job if they're at the 'end of their tether' with the actual work.

They're actually on commission for all the tickets they sell so they shouldn't be too distressed with finding someone who doesn't have a ticket.

I can imagine if everyone who was at 'the end of their tether' with the shitty way they are treated by many of the general public took your advice and left we'd have very little staff left! Good to see there's perfect people out there!

Tourmalines · 21/03/2024 11:30

YouDidntEvenAskIfSheWasThereMoriarty · 21/03/2024 03:47

They shouldn't be doing the job if they're at the 'end of their tether' with the actual work.

They're actually on commission for all the tickets they sell so they shouldn't be too distressed with finding someone who doesn't have a ticket.

Ok, so you do realise that the most stressful job one can have is dealing with the public constantly,and having to face scrutiny and criticism for every little thing they say or do . There are millions of staff dealing with burnout and stress and if they all should leave there would be no staff . Smart move , close everything up ! Of course if there were not so many twats around , there jobs would be easier .

DdraigGoch · 23/03/2024 19:29

YouDidntEvenAskIfSheWasThereMoriarty · 21/03/2024 03:47

They shouldn't be doing the job if they're at the 'end of their tether' with the actual work.

They're actually on commission for all the tickets they sell so they shouldn't be too distressed with finding someone who doesn't have a ticket.

RPIs aren't on commission.

Iwasafool · 24/03/2024 18:11

On train yesterday and unusually I was first class, only because no cheap standard tickets left but amazingly there was a cheap first class which was £8 cheaper than standard. Interesting how the other half live, the most uncomfortable seat I've ever had on a train, really need some padding as the springs were painful. Irrelevant but 3 people on a 2 hour journey didn't have first class tickets. First one got on at my station and ticket collector arrived shortly after, passenger claimed there were no seats in standard class, collector opened the connecting door and said there were seats and he could pay for upgrade or move. He moved, didn't look happy and had to be asked twice.

Second person got on a couple of stops later, he said he hadn't noticed it was first class but just sat there. Ticket collector asked if he'd like to pay for upgrade and he declined so he was asked to move.

Third one was at the other end of the carriage so I didn't hear their story.

Made me think how horrible the ticket collectors job must be with multiple people trying it on. I assume there was some unpleasantness in another carriage as there was an announcement about not tolerating any more aggression and that the transport police would be called. So at least 4 issues in a 2 hr journey, so in an 8 hr day maybe 16?

JMSA · 24/03/2024 18:52

Poor guys can't even do their job without some busybody recording them.

Acapulco12 · 24/03/2024 18:57

WandaWonder · 14/03/2024 02:18

well first of you have racially profiled her yourself, if you want to report then do so but your whole OP is racist and a whole other dictionary you dont need us to giver you permission to report nor a round of applause

@WandaWonder I didn’t detect any racism in the OP. What makes you feel the OP’s post is racist?

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