to disagree with gender ideology/pronouns

[changednameforthiss]

Genuinely don't understand why this is a controversial statement, but somehow we're so far removed from truth and reality, and saying there are no more than 2 genders is enough to get you fired from your job and cancelled forever.

I believe in man and woman as science dictates, and that's it. Why is that hateful? I am not hating PEOPLE for stating this, because I simultaneously believe in the idea that any adult should 100% have the ability and right to freely express themselves in ways that feel congruent with their inner. I also believe people can medically transition to appear as a woman/male if they deal with actual gender dysphoria i.e. genuinely loathe of the sex they were born it; and I believe people have the right to perceive themselves as a woman/man . However, that does not make you the opposite sex. This is a perception, i.e. it is subjective...

So if someone does not want to refer to someone as their preferred pronouns, it is rude at best, but it's certainly not criminal as many people try to make it now. Personally, I will call you by your preferred pronouns because I think it's just good manners, but I honestly don't think it's the truth and I don't think anyone is what their biology (thus hormones) would reject. But we are allowing this to happen and the topic of gender ideology is impacting and in some cases damaging our children who have to deal with adult topics they are wayyyyyy too young to comprehend, as well as women's safety by opening doors for biological men into women's spaces that should not be opened. This is a big problem!

Why is this so controversial? Can we not respect everyone and their right to self-expression and femininity/masculinity across sexes without changing our vocabulary to affirm people's self-perceptions as well as rejecting biology?

If you think I'm hateful, I beg of you please explain why because I'm not getting this and it's driving me insane.

its a medical term. Please explain how it is offensive?

Imagine being someone who doesn't even pause to think when some of the founders of Stonewall are openly and actively saying that Stonewall has become homophobic.

Why on earth would they do this?

What is it that has driven respected and esteemed civil rights activists - who aren't well known as being 'far right' - to say such drastic things?

The fact that people aren't even stopping to think, "errr wot this doesn't quite add up", speaks volumes.

and believing all transwomen are more of a threat to women than the male population at large.

i dont believe that, I believe TW being male are the same threat as the male population at large hence I don’t want them in single sex spaces

I don’t think anyone has said that here. Either men are a risk to women, or they’re not, if you accept they are, then they have no place in womens single sex spaces, no matter how they identify.

The sex you're born into will likely dictate your social groups and the hobbies youre allowed to indulge in, so it's understandable that kids who dont really gel with that might start thinking about alternatives. And wishing they could look different. Dress different. Be treated different. Have different friends.

Well your sex bloody well shouldn't dictate your social groups, hobbies, dress, career etc! That's the whole point of 'gender critical feminism'! It's critical of gender stereotypes and constraints, and absolutely supportive of people being as gender nonconforming as they want.
Is a campaign like Let Toys be Toys a good thing in your view? Who do you suppose started it - people who see a boy playing with what they describe as 'girls toys' and encourage him to think he's really a girl? Or those who say there's no such thing as girls toys and boys toys, just kids toys? I'll give you a clue, it started off the back of a thread on the feminism board.

If you call people what they want to be called then you are doing enough.

You don't have to understand everything about other people, but you show them the respect of using their preferred name/ pronoun anyway.

There are plenty of things that people don't understand about one another and that's OK. It's OK to just accept it is not something you 'get' but still be polite.

If you have to demean and bully other people in order to make your point, you might want to rethink…

politely. I think you're talking rubbish.
There are still plenty of cross dressers.
I dont know how many transwomen choose to retain their original genitalia,
But i think if you consider how A) expensive surgeries are, B) risk-heavy, then it'll be quite clear why many might be hesitant.

Your parts dont really matter when youre just going about your day most of the time anyway. itd matter with a partner.

No-one ever brings up these points about lesbians or trans men. It is always very unfortunately focused on trans women

From the person defending the women who called lesbians sexual racists! Amazing what passes as bullying and demeaning to you.

But where is the respect/ politeness towards women?

We have said that losing sex based spaces harms us, we have demonstrated (sadly) that this is the case with increased incidents of women and children being harmed by men who identify as trans in women's single sex spaces.

I used to agree with you but I don't anymore when I am called a bigot for pointing out genuine harms.

Respect should work both ways.

She didn’t “call lesbians sexual racists”.

Indeed, I’ve never once seen a link to stats about transwomen being attacked in male spaces, yet these people claim it happens all the time. Where?!!

The youngest was 13 and 15. Both of these were girls who had their breasts chopped off. Both, are now suing the doctors.

NO, it cannot be 'case by case'. We must have a UNIFORM APPROACH. And that means all males stay out of female spaces. No matter how these males 'identify'. It is the ONLY fair way.

Increased incidents of women and children being harmed by men who identify as trans in women's single sex spaces

Do you have a source for that please? (not challenging/ arguing, just interested as I find it's difficult to find reliable facts and figures on this topic - ideally actual research/ figures rather than just a single news article?)

It's not the dress that does the harm. Nobody here has said that men shouldn't wear dresses if they want.

It's the insistence that the dress turns him into an actual woman. How insulting is that, if you think about it? The word 'woman' means 'wears a dress'?!

It leaves female humans with no word for ourselves - this is why we're seeing those awful, and less accurate, replacements like 'menstruators' and 'uterus havers'. There's a perfectly good word for adult female humans, and it's stupid to let men have it.

If this guy in the dress manages to bully everyone into agreeing he's changed sex, he can further assault women's dignity by plonking his male presence in the ladies' loo (and peeing all over the seat/floor in many cases). This makes very many women uncomfortable and they feel compromised. If they complain, it's likely their trans-inclusive employer will discipline them for requesting a safe space.

The guy in the dress may parade his cock & balls around the women's changing room at the pool/gym (it's happened a lot). This not only distresses many women and girls, it is forbidden to Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women for instance. So all those women and girls have to stop using the sports facility, denying their rights to healthy recreation.

Same guy may join rape and domestic violence survivor groups, the very places where women are deeply traumatised by a male presence. Unable to open up about their experience in front of him (despite his dress), they run away and are denied their right to a healing process.

I could go on - sports that women and girls quit because they are endangered by male players, or cannot win against the faster and stronger male 'woman'; women forced to share prison cells with a men; girl guides allocated sleeping spaces with men; female patients sexually assaulted by male 'women' in single-sex hospital wards; there's so much more. All result in loss of dignity, safety and privacy for women and girls.

And all because society has, weirdly, decided that if a man wears a dress he's a woman He doesn't even need to wear the dress! He can just say "I'm a woman" and everyone goes "Okay". I mean, what do they think a woman is??

(It was made under provocation)

Oh ffs! Just when I thought the apologists couldn't get even more outrageously desperate. I think you've sprained all your muscles reaching so far.

No it doesn't help as you have completely misunderstood what is happening.

If what was happening were just people dressing differently or trying different things, there would be no issue.

Instead what is happening is that we are told that gender identity is equivalent to sex in all and every circumstance. So men who identify as women can access all and every women's space and service and must be treated exactly as women as they are women, literally.

And that has huge negative impacts on women.

Gay rights took nothing away from women! It is not even remotely the same, not even in the same stratosphere.

Can you please provide the evidence that males with trans identities in the UK are attacked as often as female people. I too am keen to see this evidence.

Where can I find the UK specific data, please?

.

So fucking true!

"Biological males can still be women"

Absolute horse shit.

The 'sexual racism' thing was to do with this. I'm not sure if Kelley used that exact phrase but that's what she said boils down to, @Tandora .

The lesbians who feel pressured to have sex and relationships with trans women www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385

Other people’s gender identity doesn’t affect you in the slightest. Respecting this is extremely easy, and with all the hate directed towards trans people it’s just so depressing to see threads like this presented so ‘innocently.’ Grow up.

Except it does 'affect us' - quite considerably - when we're being told we must 'respect' people's preferred pronouns, when they don't remotely pass in society as what they claim to represent.
Simply put, I refuse to respect others when their 'demands' mean my having to disrespect myself. That will always come first.
By that I mean, if someone 6ft tall with a huge beard and Adam's apple presents to me saying they're a woman, I simply can't go along with this, if what I see with my own two eyes is someone who is quite clearly a man. That would be lying. And I don't lie.
I frankly don't care what anyone thinks of that 🤷‍♀️