Is being well-presented as a child important

[JulesLl]

For context I have 2 boys, 3 and 5, SIL has 3 girls 2, 4 and 6.

Today MIL, SIL and I went out for lunch. SIL lives in a village, her husband is deputy head of a private school in the village and they get 75% discount on each of the children's fees, she doesn't work.
A lady came over to chat to us while we were eating and keep complimenting her on how "well turned out" her girls are everyday, how it is rare to see and speaks volumes about her parenting.
Her girls go to the type of school where they have wool coats, felt hats and tartan pinafores. She also does her older twos hair in 2 perfect French plaits everyday with ribbons on the end! Her girls will be frequently seen in lovely smock dresses and Mary Jane shoes like something from call the midwife!
They do get dirty but she seems to do a remarkable job of making sure they are perfectly presented. Including perfectly white tennis clothes for their lessons!!
On the other hand, my boys go to state school, polo and sweatshirt type place. Their clothes are always clean at the start of the day but I don't think they look particularly smart, DS1 finds a way to look scruffy no matter what. I don't really care, they are kids. Weekends are joggers and tees.
Whenever MIL has them she puts them in smart clothes, especially if it's a day out with the cousins. They will all go to national trust houses with the girls in dresses and she will put the boys in chinos and polos.
MIL continued the conversation after the lady moved on, saying she agrees and she loves how pretty they always look and her dream was always to have little blonde granddaughters in lovely dresses. She then joked my boys could do with taking a leaf out of their book.
It got me thinking, is it important for kids to be well presented? Especially just for everyday things like school? Are your kids like this or more like mine and scruffy?
AIBU to wonder if I'm letting my kids down not putting more effort into their appearance?

I have family like this and the girls and boys are not allowed to get dirty. I always bring spare clothes with me where ds could enjoy playing, getting muddy, enjoy the odd ice cream and choose to have spaghetti bolognese at a restaurant when we do meet but the other kids are not allowed to do any of those and we are looked down on for being scruffy whereas I change him if it's dirty, wet or sweaty.

Ds comes back home from school with paint, holes on his joggers and cuts and grazes on his knees and elbows. I would prefer to know that he has had fun and is growing up being just a child and not being kept on leashes because of their outfits from trotters shouldn't get ruined or their hair. For me children should be comfortable in what they wear and yes clean but should just be a child.

I suppose it's whatever your definition of "scruffy" is, which is subjective.

Oh definitely, I just think it's interesting that children raised that way didn't really like it, whereas from the adults view it was clearly quite positive and beneficial.

I suppose it's whatever your definition of "scruffy" is, which is subjective
Definitely and even within categories there's some subjectivity.

I don't mind younger children's joggers (like you get in Asda, Next, H&M) but hate the look of children in sports tracksuits as day to day clothing. Sportswear to me is for exercising so neither me nor DH wear gym wear to go out for coffee or general errands.

But I've read threads on here where lots of posters think it's totally fine to do the school run and nip to the supermarket in their pyjamas (usually accompanied with something like "but what makes something pyjamas and not day clothing? Nobody could tell I'm in my pyjamas because they're plain grey and look like a lightweight pair of summer trousers"). Personally I think it's important to be up and dressed for the day, probably wouldn't notice if someone was wearing non-pyjama looking bottoms, but common sense says a fairly ambiguous plain pair of trouser isn't the same look as people doing the school run in their Tinkerbell pyjamas and slippers.

But what way?

Children who were neglected - unwashed, inadequately clothed for activity/weather etc - is a different issue to people who just didn’t like their parents’ taste in children’s wear/haircuts.

For all the adults complaining that they didn’t like wearing clothes they don’t consider ‘smart enough’, there are probably equal numbers who absolutely resented being forced into parent shoes and dressed by their parents.

My grandmother was a (professional) seamstress. She used to make me and my sister clothes. I fucking hated it. But I suspect loads of MNers would view the handmade clothes I loathed as massively positive.

I do think it's important to teach kids to be tidy, well presented and take pride in themselves. And that doesn't mean they have to be uncomfortable. I always make sure my dc dress properly when out, although in comfortable clothing. My ds is in a private school and tbh when I see the kids walking out at the end of the day in their blazers and ties I do feel a sense of pride. I know my ds takes pride in himself too at only 7. Not sure why people think dressing neatly means that child must be uncomfortable or miserable.

My ds loves joggers too, but we have smart ones for out of the house and any old ones for indoors.

My mother took pride in how we dressed. We were not allowed outside the house in jeans or athletic leisure (unless actually playing a sport). At church/chapel (went to a public school on scholarship) we wore similar to what the girls you described wore, braided hair with ribbons, polished Mary Janes etc.

We still had comfortable clothes to run, play, sail, ride in, but we always looked pretty smart.

I think it’s important too. I think if you are going out, yes look nice but if you are going out to do some outdoor exploring then old clothes are more suitable.

First impressions count and it’s good to raise children with pride in all they do, including their appearance, shine their shoes on the weekend etc before school on Monday.

It will pay dividends later, I have a job now where I mix with celebrities and royals because I fit in.

Well, personally I think there's a very fine line between neglect and "looking scruffy" but I expect that's not a very popular opinion on here.

I mean, I hate to bring class into it but I do think the middle/upper classes can get away with their children looking scruffy whereas if a child on a sink estate dressed the same way, the parents would be slammed for child neglect.

I'm in a solidly MC/UMC area in the US, where kids don't wear uniform to school for the most part. They wear practical, comfortable, weather-appropriate clothes instead.

The vast majority of boys wear sweatpants/ joggers, and the girls wear leggings. In freezing weather, they wear snow bibs and winter jackets over their indoor clothes. When the weather is warmer, they mostly wear shorts.

Clothes for children are mostly bought in Gap, Old Navy, Walmart, or Target, from what I've observed, and chosen on a purely functional basis (and there is not even a guarantee that hair will be brushed daily). The idea of a 'smartly' turned out child is a completely irrelevant proposition.

Otoh, children do a lot of verbal presentations in class and usually do a lot of extracurricular activities to develop talents. The focus is on what you do and say and not how you look.

One of my children really likes to be neat.

My other two, christ on a bike. ds was a page boy at a wedding once. All the other boys looked so well turned out. Ds was dressed exactly the same and still managed to look like stig of the dump.

Similarly, my three year old dd looks like she y
slept in a skip what ever I do.

I do only dress young children in joggers/leggings/T-shirts though. And almost always second hand.

It's an odd thing but kids dressed perfectly in my experience seems to be only those parents who are trying to fit in and appear perfect parents, whereas if you mix with more upper middle class parents and kids, they are in mismatched clothing, hand me downs not the quite size and scruffy hair (along with the battered old Volvo) yes it's a cliche but Im a people watcher and mix in more than one circle

It will pay dividends later, I have a job now where I mix with celebrities and royals because I fit in.

Are we supposed to be impressed that your mum shining your shoes somehow directly caused you now mix with celebrities and royals?

What if the celebrities are in joggers, hoodies and trainers?

A colleague dresses down and when we had VIPs in the creative industries visiting ( you would know their names), they gravitated to him and not to the rest of us who were dressed smartly. He was dressed like they were.

@LadyNijo @ClutchingOurBananas I’m not teaching her anything about being perfect. Quite the opposite, telling her it’s fine not to present as perfect. She sees me doing that daily - I spend most of my days in sleepwear and a dressing gown as I’m disabled, have chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia.

It is not uncommon for teens to take a long time to get ready when going out eg for a special evening with friends. I kind of rolled these into one, she doesn’t for school. Her makeup is much more basic on school days but skilfully done and not something I’m overly concerned about, something she’ll grow out of. She just seems to take ages at doing anything, not just her appearance, even getting dressed in school clothes, which is why her skin care and makeup take ages. It’s a stage imo, frustrating as it is. She used to be able to get ready much more quickly.

People judge a lot from shoes IMO. Obviously they have a cost and are a clear indication of wealth. Sensory issues I understand. But appropriacy is key.

Sloppy, worn down, unsupportive mesh trainers with velcro fastenings show a lack of care and skill-teaching on the parents’ part. I judge.

Plastic school shoes- same. The kids have to wear them 5 days a week. And those platform clumpy shoes for primary girls? Way to give them posture problems.
Wearing school shoes or school plimsoles in the summer? You feel sorry for the children when strong sandals can be picked up cheaply, even handed down. Ditto for waterproof boots in Winter.

Little kids wearing spanking white trainers paired with elegant wedding outfit. Smart move for the parents, “(cough can’t afford dress shoes cough)” for the judgy pants.

Wearing school shoes or school plimsoles in the summer? You feel sorry for the children when strong sandals can be picked up cheaply, even handed down

That’s just nonsense- much better for child’s feet to be wearing well fitting school shoes whatever the season than handed down sandals which will be moulded to someone else’s feet shape, and worn away to suit someone else’s gait.

velcro fastenings show a lack of care and skill-teaching on the parents’ part. I judge.

My son is 10 and can only just tie laces. You wouldn’t know to look at him that he has autism, dyspraxia, adhd, PoTS and E-DS- his fingers are only just beginning to be strong enough to hold and manipulate laces, and he is only just beginning to develop some coordination- after years and ££££ in PT, and lots and lots of practice-

due to the PoTS bending over to tie laces makes him dizzy and regurgitate, and due to the E-Ds it’s painful, yet he still keeps on trying…

then when he goes out, wankers judge him. Over the fastening on his shoes.

Are you so ablist in all areas, or is it only footwear?

Oh dear.

I am so, so tired of having to make preliminary excuses for sensory issues, special needs, lack of money, ad hominem examples etc etc etc. How many do I have to make before nobody takes offence?

This thread is about the importance of well-turned out kids and the impression it gives. I gave examples of how shoes are judged by me and by judgy pants.

Do you buy wellies new for every child? I certainly didn’t and with short British summers, walking sandals might get 3 weeks’ wear. Enough to hand on IMO.

That really isn’t what you said in your first post. You absolutely made it sound like taking ages to put on make up was a good thing because it shows care for how you look.

I would really be worried about a girl who feels she needs to spend an hour getting ready to look acceptable. That is never a good thing.

If she just takes ages at everything, then it’s not that she things appearance is super important. She just takes ages regardless. But that really isn’t what you said.

@Sgtmajormummy I buy wellies for every new child. Yes. Firstly because I have huge age gaps (and I’m not hoarding wellies just in case) but also because my children wore/wear their wellies and they’re totally done by the time they grow out of them. In fact, DS3 has been through 2 pairs of wellies (worn to the point of no longer being water tight) in the 6 months it’s taken his feet to grow.

The judgement isn’t offensive to me- I know that it speaks volumes about you and not at all about me or my child,

It does make me fucking angry because when you are making judgements on disabled people in the real world your attitude is part of the reason why life is so difficult for disabled people.

i am so, so tired of having to make preliminary excuses for sensory issues, special needs, lack of money, ad hominem examples etc etc etc. How many do I have to make before nobody takes offence?

Do you also start sentences with “I’m not racist, but…”?

You can make all the excuses you like on mumsnet, but in the real world attitudes like yours are damaging.

I gave examples of how shoes are judged by me

Indeed you did, and I pointed out that your judgements are ableist.

If that makes you uncomfortable, then I suggest you think about your behaviour.