Is being well-presented as a child important

[JulesLl]

For context I have 2 boys, 3 and 5, SIL has 3 girls 2, 4 and 6.

Today MIL, SIL and I went out for lunch. SIL lives in a village, her husband is deputy head of a private school in the village and they get 75% discount on each of the children's fees, she doesn't work.
A lady came over to chat to us while we were eating and keep complimenting her on how "well turned out" her girls are everyday, how it is rare to see and speaks volumes about her parenting.
Her girls go to the type of school where they have wool coats, felt hats and tartan pinafores. She also does her older twos hair in 2 perfect French plaits everyday with ribbons on the end! Her girls will be frequently seen in lovely smock dresses and Mary Jane shoes like something from call the midwife!
They do get dirty but she seems to do a remarkable job of making sure they are perfectly presented. Including perfectly white tennis clothes for their lessons!!
On the other hand, my boys go to state school, polo and sweatshirt type place. Their clothes are always clean at the start of the day but I don't think they look particularly smart, DS1 finds a way to look scruffy no matter what. I don't really care, they are kids. Weekends are joggers and tees.
Whenever MIL has them she puts them in smart clothes, especially if it's a day out with the cousins. They will all go to national trust houses with the girls in dresses and she will put the boys in chinos and polos.
MIL continued the conversation after the lady moved on, saying she agrees and she loves how pretty they always look and her dream was always to have little blonde granddaughters in lovely dresses. She then joked my boys could do with taking a leaf out of their book.
It got me thinking, is it important for kids to be well presented? Especially just for everyday things like school? Are your kids like this or more like mine and scruffy?
AIBU to wonder if I'm letting my kids down not putting more effort into their appearance?

Yes. My life would have been 100% easier growing up if id just been well presented/taught to budget & sort it myself 🫣 remember losing my first job because I didn't have the right clothes (no uniform) & just wasn't able to put it together (& too embarrassed to go back after being let go of to "change clothes" = i didnt own anything else to be honest & had yet to be paid - admittedly quite extreme but not an issue for me these days)

I think its minor things like this that do ultimately pay off long term just being able to co-ordinate, knowing your size ect. Being able to manage your hair from years off no knots. As much as the compliments side of it growing up

Isn't there some research showing that tidy and clean children are presumed to be more intelligent in the school environment and may be treated as such and thus achieve better?
I'm sure I saw this years ago and if it remains true, it's very sad. However DD is a primary teacher and seems to know the children so well that I'm not sure if it is truly a factor?

I would say that this is perfectly in keeping with being well-presented as a child though! Her look sounds anything but scruffy and unkempt, but actually very high maintenance and carefully thought out.

I think being clean at the start of the day is the most important thing. They all mostly end up looking like they've been dragged through a hedge by 3:15, but starting the day clean and tidy makes a difference.

I work in a school and there are children than turn up in clean uniform, clean faces and tidy hair. They are usually (but not always) the type of children that are wide awake and ready to learn.

There are also children than turn up with food round their mouth, yesterdays uniform on again (same stains from lunch the previous day), clearly haven't brushed their teeth as the build up is visible... these are usually the type of children that are falling asleep at their desk, not paying attention, haven't had breakfast or a decent night sleep.

I do silently judge the parents of those children as they are not helping and encouraging them to take pride in their appearance and are not meeting the basic needs of their child regarding hygiene and cleanliness. I personally see a correlation between how well presented they are in the morning and how ready they are to take on the day.

I'm not bothered about pristine, perfectly pressed clothes, ribbons in hair, immaculate clothes and shoes. But I do think being clean and presentable matters.

As a child I was very neglected. I was left to look after myself and was relentlessly picked on the whole way through school for being dirty, scruffy, untidy. Not having the right uniform, never being able to scrape together a PE kit out of the dirty clothes I had lying around.

I carry scars from what I went through.

Clean and tidy is all that matters, and loved. Most importantly loved.

Sparkly and showy is more about the parents than the kids. They are probably jealous of the relaxed atmosphere your kids have, being able to wear joggers at the weekend and not have to worry about staying pristine.

My DC are naturally scruffy, messy and untidy. They’re happiest in joggers and t-shirts that will probably have yesterday’s lunch on them and they still haven’t learned that having a tidy room is really nice but that you have to actually put things away. I have drummed it into them that before you leave the house you look in the mirror to check what you look like. Hair brushed, no Nutella on your cheeks, teeth brushed, shoes cleaned. I polish their school shoes, iron uniform and make sure they’re not covered in pet hair before they leave. I’ve told them to take pride in how they look as how you present yourself to the world is really important. I think if you look smart when meeting someone it shows you’ve made an effort because you value their time. It’s a mark of respect for yourself and those you’re meeting.

I find it a bit creepy that your MIL dreamed of two blond girls in nice dresses. Makes it seem like she wanted dolls not real people. I think this is common. People like to enjoy looking at cute little girls. The message being they are there for others enjoyment. I have two very cute little blond girls. Sometimes they'll wear nice things but mostly they are always covered in snot, food, paint (nursery don't make any effort to stop this). Usually in joggers as it's easier to run around in. It's what works for them not for other people.

As a minimum - clothes should be clean, well-fitting, appropriate (for the occasion and the weather). Having said that my boys are not compliant dressers, so I have dropped my standards as to what appropriate means.

Over and above that I would be guided by the child wants.

I've told her she's OTY but she won't listen. Her DiL must be a saint.

I think it is important to take care of your appearance/clothes etc.

In terms of uniform, we have experience with 2 different independent schools who had totally contrasting views on appearance and uniform.

At the first school it was a bit of a race to the bottom, bragging about which blazer had been handed down the most, kids going in with dinner stains on their pinafores as the parents only bought 1 or 2 per kid. I know this is quite typically "old money" but I detest it. We as adults don't do that. It seems cruel to allow kids to do it.

We moved our kids to a 3-18 school and here appearance and presentation is a lot more important. The school would ask parents to return home and bring a new pinafore if it was stained. They scan any clothes at 2nd hand sales to ensure the condition is good enough. This school are much more diligent in all areas though, they care about the details and produce much better results. I also think the felt hats and boaters are a nice nod to tradition.
They change into trainers for break and lunch so it doesn't hinder play at all, and most days especially in infants they come out looking a totally different child than they went in. A couple of the girls in DS' class seem to come out still pristine though!! And I've been into help and know they aren't shy from playing!!

Basically it's personal preference and I don't see anything wrong with caring about your appearance. Unfortunately your appearance does matter, people will make assumptions based on it and I think being put together is good value to teach.

My kids almost never wear joggers or leggings - I hate them. The nursery at their school allows leggings, joggers or a jersey pinafore type dress so they sometimes wear them to nursery but at home we prefer jeans, dresses and dungarees.

As for tennis whites, is it possible that it's a club rule? We used to be part of a club where you just had to wear tennis whites, luckily it's not a muddy sport!

Like most here, I think teaching children to look after themselves in terms of their hygiene and appropriate presentation for the occasion is important - other children will have parents who teach these things and it can be humiliating and confusing for a child to be the one who doesn't know. I think it's a kind of cruelty to know how society operates for yourself but deny your children that information.

The other thing is, it is important to let your children know that they're important enough for you to do that basic care - supply them with clean, fitting, appropriate clothes, make sure they're washed, nails are trimmed, teeth are cleaned. They get some of their self esteem from feeling important enough to you that you give them consistent care.

Exactly.

I'm not sure if it's yet another MN "thing" but I don't know anyone in real life who l lets their kids walk around in scruffy clothes with messy, unbrushed hair 😬

Yes, kids should be able to get muddy and climb trees but they don't need to look like they've been dragged through a hedge backwards in order to do so.

IME being clean and nicely dressed does a great deal to boost your self-esteem and self-worth. There's a reason people suffering from depression are told to focus on self care and keeping themselves clean and presentable.

Your SIL's daughters sound like the ghost twins from The Shining.

I do think that appearances matter - much as we may wish it was otherwise!

For me, it's not about kids being 'pristine' in Sunday best but it's more about looking like they are clean, tidy and appropriately dressed for what they are doing. Personally, I find it sad when I see kids in un-ironed crumpled clothes with un-brushed hair. If parents can't prioritise these very basic things it makes me wonder what else is being missed.

All that matters is that children are wearing clothes that are clean and undamaged, comfortable, fit them appropriately and are suitable for the occasion. Faces and hands clean, teeth and hair brushed, no snotty noses.

Joggers and t-shirts are perfectly fine for most things kids do at the weekend and of course, kids will get dirty during the course of the day; that's normal. If your child spills their drink down their top during a shopping trip or gets grass stains on their knees in the park, there's not much you can do about it until you get home!

A party/meal in a restaurant/trip to the theatre or whatever would require a bit more effort because it's a different occasion, but I don't think it's remotely necessary (or normal) to put a child in French plaits, dresses, tights and Mary Janes for (eg) a day at the zoo or a hot chocolate in Starbucks or for a play-date at a friend's house.

School uniform is school uniform - just needs to be clean, in decent condition and to fit them.

I couldn't care less, but everybody we know is pretty scruffy tbh.

Once the kids hit the teenage years, they will all look a total mess.

Once the kids hit the teenage years, they will all look a total mess.

I'd say that very much depends on the teenager.

They may no longer wear what their parents want them to, but many teenagers spend hours on their appearance and wouldn't dream of going out and looking scruffy or messy.

They do around here, @lifebeginsaftercoffee! I think a lot of this depends on where you live, what sort of school your kids go to, and what kind of social circles you are in.

Oh absolutely, I'm just saying it's not guaranteed.

I agree! all of these 'fell off the ropes' storys still consist of purposeful looks put together by kids who know there sizes & have the confidence to present themselves style wise for whatever they're aiming for & growing up being more socially approved of & attracting the right sort of attention didnt half help + they can always switch back or move forwards when theyre ready

I have 3 brothers and was the only girl growing up (have a sister who was born when I was a teen) and when I was really little my mum always dressed me in tailored style dresses with mary janes, white, frilly socks and matching hair bows. I looked lovely in photos. My brothers wore more practical clothes. I was never allowed to do anything fun in case I got dirty. I wasn't allowed to climb because I'd show my knickers. I was regularly told off for taking my plaits out and I had long, fine hair that tangled easily and hurt when brushed, but she refused to let me have it cut to a reasonable length. I'm sure your SIL is lovely and her daughters are very happy girls, but it's also entirely possible they hate it and just wish they could wear joggers so they could climb trees and play football like the boys. My kids (3 boys, 1 girl as well) have smart clothes for smart occasions and comfortable clothes for every day wear and as long as they're happy and able to play I couldn't really care less how they look.

Some children are just easier to make presentable than others too. One of our daughters loves her hair being done, requests different styles, picks accessories, likes dresses and picking matching outfits.

Our other daughter a similar age likes jeans and hoodys, has no interest in her clothes, doesn't like her hair in anything other than a pony tail or down, and usually runs through mud in her shoes.

And our boy likes picking his clothes and keeping clean, but will often pick all green from head to toe so there's no looking smart despite him being interested in picking his clothes.

That's with no influence from us, but I imagine with pressure you're more likely to have a child like our appearance focused one. I don't view it as a positive personally!

Basically it's personal preference and I don't see anything wrong with caring about your appearance. Unfortunately your appearance does matter, people will make assumptions based on it and I think being put together is good value to teach.

I realise I'm a walking, talking MN trope here - but I would assume a parent whose children were always well turned out were new to the middle class, and too concerned about others' opinion of them.

Sparkly and showy is more about the parents than the kids. They are probably jealous of the relaxed atmosphere your kids have, being able to wear joggers at the weekend and not have to worry about staying pristine.

Agree with this, @MyPurpleHeart