To have told my niece she won’t make it into Oxford uni?

[Awfulaunt]

Hi all,
first off sorry if there’s typos I’m typing this on my phone.
for context, I’ve been a private tutor for years, mainly English and History. Over the years I’ve helped with lots of UCAS and applications including a few oxbridge ones. My niece is at the age where she’s thinking about uni and her parents asked me to tutor her for English and History, I agreed. She is bright, gets Bs and the occasional A or C. She asked me if I think she should apply to Oxford and I said “No not for your undergrad. Maybe if you work really really hard at uni and do extracurriculars and things while you’re there and come out with a first you could try for your masters if you want to do one, but it’s not really an option at this moment in time.” All seemed fine, we carried on and she seemed okay. Fast forward to now and I just had SIL on the phone shouting at me that I crushed her dreams and that she was going to apply and get in and show me (etc). I said I’d love it if she did, I’d be absolutely thrilled if she got in to spite me.
I don’t think I was harsh when I told her, I don’t think it was cruel. I think it’s kind of my job to tell her. I didn’t rule it out in the future because I feel like once she’s at uni she will flourish academically because she will have more freedom etc and I’ve told her this many times. I feel horrible that I’ve upset her but I genuinely think it was the right thing to do.
I sent her a message saying I am sorry if I came off harsh or anything I just want what is best for her. Also spoke to DB who said SIL was just angry because niece was upset and that he thinks I did the right thing. Bit miffed that he let her speak to me like that, but also when she goes off best thing to do is stay out the crossfire.
Am I in the wrong and just blind to it?

Not unreasonable at all.

If you said it with kindness then I think that's fine, surely a teacher would have said similar. Sounds like her mum thinks she's more clever than she is. Is she an only child?

I don't think unreasonable at all. So few people get into Oxford that it's important to manage expectations.

Is she Y12? What were her gcse grades?

I honestly think it is cruel to give completely false hope to children. You did the right thing.

You aren't unreasonable to think it but very few kids or parents react well to that kind of news.

Personally I would have said something along the lines of you'll need to work really hard.

She asked your advice given your relevant experience, and you gave that advice.

if said with kindness then not U

You never know, your reality check may inspire her to put in the work now. I am not sure I'd have phrased it exactly the same, but she should be under no illusion that she will need to get the top grades to make an Oxford application worthwhile.

I think you meant well and it is super difficult to get into Oxbridge. In my experience, people have to discover things for themselves and so I always encourage friends and family as you have nothing to lose by applying. For example, if someone wants to study medicine I would always encourage them to try even if they end up not becoming a doctor as they learn and develop through the process. That said, I have a child who did well in their GCSEs and might apply to Oxbridge if their predicted grades are good enough and I have told them already that even then there are so many students with great grades that they probably won't get in.

Sounds like SIL was more upset that niece.

Maybe she thought tutoring would bring about miracles? Surely she knows what the entrance requirements are?

Bit miffed that he let her speak to me like that

What, exactly, do you propose he should have done? Tie her up? He didn't "let" her do anything. 🙄

I think you were just being realistic, but there is nothing stopping your neice from applying anyway. The worst that can happen is that she gets rejected before even being offered an interview. At least then, she will know that getting an undergraduate place is super competitive, and that's that.

I wouldn't say you crushed her dreams as you gsve her some hope that she may still try after her first degree.

Your SIL overreacted and certainly shouldn't have spoken to you like that though. I suspect your neice will recover better than your SIL, and she's probably embarrassed with the way her mum went off on one at you.

Okay except I can't see the relevance of extracurriculars to applying as a grad student. Love of subject, high grades, being interested in the right sub discipline and/or luck are the only criteria.

How old is she?

One of the perils of doing business with family.

You're not tutoring her for free are you ?

Remember no good deed goes unpunished :)

Edit : It may well be you have destroyed your sister in laws dreams and not your nieces.

I would have had the conversation with her parents before I had it with her.

I don't think you needed to say that to her, because her predicted grades would weed her out of the process anyway.

When students are applying, unless, they're in the top few percent and getting As and 8/9s, it just won't happen. With the grades you mentioned, she probably wouldn't even get into a RG uni, never mind Oxford.

Why would you put yourself in that position.

Or another way to say what you did, without actually saying it, would be to tell her what grades Oxford normslly expect and to advise her of the rigorous interview process, as it's not just about getting all As or A* .

She would then figure out if she could apply.

I would have encouraged her. If she's consistently getting As and Bs she may pull something out the bag in her exams, and if she's otherwise a good fit for Oxford and meets the rest of the application criteria I'd not have quashed her dreams

They like all rounders and for you to talk about yourself outside the subject area during the interview, as you need to stand out from the 100s of other applicants with the same predicted grades as you.

I suspect it's a bonus if you're also a gifted rower.

Not unreasonable, no. those grades aren’t good enough.

Though sometimes people surprise you. I once gave feedback on the Oxford PS/admissions exercise of the kid of a client of DH’s — it was stolid, dull, right but uninteresting stuff. I gave a detailed critique and told him via email what he should be aiming for, and gave him interview tips once he was called, not thinking he had a hope. He got in. I was gobsmacked. He must have really upped his game.

Was she talking about a joint degree in history and English?

What year is she in? If year 9 - YABU!

YABU. If you were tutoring her and she said she wanted to apply to Oxford, all you need to do is say, 'Great. You'll need to be getting A*s in everything and understanding why you don't, if you don't. You need to be reading very widely outside the curriculum. Read Shakespeare for fun (if applying for English.) Come back to me next week with the homework I set you plus a 2k word essay on a literary book you have read for pleasure or a popular genre book that you can analyse with fresh insights. This is exciting. Go for it.' She'll either realise she isn't up to it, or she'll rise to the challenge.

No point in saying, 'You can't.' Better to say, 'If you want this, you need to XYZ'

No. A good fit for Oxford means consistent As across the board with A* in key subjects. This student gets consistent Bs and an occasional A, if you re-read the OP. Even then you may not get in: it is really, really competitive, especially for Arts subjects. Not to mention the weight that they undoubtedly give to overseas students, who pay a lot more.

Your SIL is nuts. And rude.

No, you were absolutely fair. My mum had to pop the bubble for me after illness (brought on by a dreadful GP) wrecked what was probably a slight though initially viable chance anyway.

I'm glad I found out that way tbh. I still begrudge the psycho doctor though!