To have told my niece she won’t make it into Oxford uni?

[Awfulaunt]

Hi all,
first off sorry if there’s typos I’m typing this on my phone.
for context, I’ve been a private tutor for years, mainly English and History. Over the years I’ve helped with lots of UCAS and applications including a few oxbridge ones. My niece is at the age where she’s thinking about uni and her parents asked me to tutor her for English and History, I agreed. She is bright, gets Bs and the occasional A or C. She asked me if I think she should apply to Oxford and I said “No not for your undergrad. Maybe if you work really really hard at uni and do extracurriculars and things while you’re there and come out with a first you could try for your masters if you want to do one, but it’s not really an option at this moment in time.” All seemed fine, we carried on and she seemed okay. Fast forward to now and I just had SIL on the phone shouting at me that I crushed her dreams and that she was going to apply and get in and show me (etc). I said I’d love it if she did, I’d be absolutely thrilled if she got in to spite me.
I don’t think I was harsh when I told her, I don’t think it was cruel. I think it’s kind of my job to tell her. I didn’t rule it out in the future because I feel like once she’s at uni she will flourish academically because she will have more freedom etc and I’ve told her this many times. I feel horrible that I’ve upset her but I genuinely think it was the right thing to do.
I sent her a message saying I am sorry if I came off harsh or anything I just want what is best for her. Also spoke to DB who said SIL was just angry because niece was upset and that he thinks I did the right thing. Bit miffed that he let her speak to me like that, but also when she goes off best thing to do is stay out the crossfire.
Am I in the wrong and just blind to it?

Nice little snide dig at the children of only parents there, @penelopepinkbott. What the fuck has that got to do with anything.

Be aware that, when you show your own ignorance and prejudice, you make yourself look like a twat.

I think you were reasonably kind and realistic. Not all successful Oxbridge applicants have 8s and 9s or As and A*s across the board at GCSE, but they'll have a fair string of them all the same.
Extracurricular activities should be undertaken for their own sake. Some universities will want to hear about them, but Oxbridge interviews will be primarily, if not exclusively, subject-focused.

I hope you won’t get the blame for her not doing well, by affecting her confidence. I don’t think you’re in the wrong, it’s just that they sound deluded.

Did she do remarkably well in her GCSEs?

Fuck off with the "single = spoiled" trope. It's untrue and very insulting to those of us who have raised perfectly normal, unentitled, unspoiled single children.

Teacher said this to me at the same stage, ruined my confidence and I went on to fail my exams.

Got a 1st later in life but did a lot of damage in the meantime.

Some oxbridge courses aren't that difficult to get into .one or 2 have a higher than 50% acceptance rate

I agree, better to let her know what would be required, rather than: no chance, don't even bother

My teacher told me I wouldn't get in for my subject at the college I wanted. She was wrong.

Tbf I didn't love it there, but I got a good final degree and certainly wasn't out of place.

I similarly have friends whose teachers told them not to bother applying for medicine. They are now doctors.

I know people who have over and underachieved in their exams based on teachers' expectations.

Personally I think there's nothing to lose by applying. I'd talk about my own experiences in what it was like and what to expect etc but I wouldn't say not to bother applying at all.

You WANT your brother to tell his wife how and what she can say to you? Wow.

An unsupported dyslexic could massively improve her grades with the right support and encouragement. I’d be unhappy with a tutor limiting my child’s ambitions.

I would have said it differently. I would have said along of the lines of, well yes you can certainly apply, to get into Oxford you need grades x x x and let her read between the lines.

Where's 'Oxbridge'? I hate that term, it is meaningless. Oxford and Cambridge are two completely different universities.

100% agree with this.

Mine weren't. I had three and only one was subject based. One was about human geography and the foundation of the welfare state (why I do not know, as I studied neither for A level and wasn't relevant to the course I was applying for), and the last was a general interview with the college principal who asked all sorts of questions about me.

I don't know about that, but DD2 was a B student in Y12 and Y13 (she was at a not very good secondary modern school and those were good grades by its standards). Thrived at university, turned out to love high-tech lab research and went on to get a first-class (or the equivalent thereof) Masters on a world-renown course at a university at least on a par with Oxbridge in her particular field.

Which is exactly what @Awfulaunt has suggested as a possible course of action for her niece, incidentally.

You can hate the term all you want but it's how the two universities are colloquially known.

Do you think it would make a difference to her grades if she is given full support and other concessions for dyslexia?

You should have been far more tactful and advised her to work hard to give herself as many options as possible, make sure she applies to a range of universities, visits/ does open days, and researches universities to make sure she chooses those that are a good fit for her preferences and learning style. You should have reminded her that there's plenty of time to figure all of that out, and in the meantime to develop her interest and dig deep into the subjects she's keen on.

Actually, you were as tactful as a sledgehammer in a bowl of jelly, and you should apologise.

A little encouragement can go a long, long way with some teens. My DS surprised everyone by becoming a doctor when about 99% of his teachers would have predicted a career as a forklift operator.

Just to agree with those who are saying that extra-curricular stuff is irrelevant for Oxbridge (and other university) admissions, and that it is much easier to get into to do a Master's - in my subject you don't even need to have a First, or a first degree in that subject.

Mine did. Range of 7 to 9 in GCSEs; predicted ABC in year 12; upped it to AAA in year 13; applied post-A level results.

Not me but a guy at my college got in with Cs at A-level (he went to a terrible failing school and that was a factor.) I don't think it did him any favours as he really struggled and got very depressed, but he did get in.

Curse the asterisk formatting. I always forget. 2A*, 1A.

Agree 100% with @AmaryllisChorus

I don't think you're wrong. As a school careers adviser, I meet a lot of kids who start off aspiring for Oxbridge. However, I tend to avoid telling them they "can't" do something, instead I would do all the talk around making sure they seriously explore the expectations and look in detail at what's happened in recent years in terms actual grades achieved (including showing them that actual data) and that they really want to make sure that they can be as confident as possible they don't have a wasted slot on their UCAS application etc etc. Invariably those students don't end up applying, and I haven't been the bad guy who told them "no".

So yes, you're not wrong but there are always kinder ways of 'telling' someone something without being brutally honest.

I've only said a more explicit no once in recent years, at that was to a student doing entirely the wrong A levels, not even an art or DT and didn't draw in her spare time who was convinced she would walk into an architecture degree with low grades at A level and GCSE. She has entirely ignored everything I said though and still thinks she's going (while doing little to effect any change in her skill set)

Maybe so, but it sounds silly and ignorant. Nobody who has actually been to either of them or teaches at either of them refers to 'Oxbridge'.

Totally fair and unlike other situations there is something to lose - she'd lose one of her slots to apply (assuming you still only get 5). She also asked if she should apply and you gave her the correct advice with the information you had at the time - of course if she now miraculously ups her game then you haven't destroyed her dream but given her the information she needed to overcome it. Telling her 'you go for it, girlfriend!' with grades like that would have been the crueller thing.