To have told my niece she won’t make it into Oxford uni?

[Awfulaunt]

Hi all,
first off sorry if there’s typos I’m typing this on my phone.
for context, I’ve been a private tutor for years, mainly English and History. Over the years I’ve helped with lots of UCAS and applications including a few oxbridge ones. My niece is at the age where she’s thinking about uni and her parents asked me to tutor her for English and History, I agreed. She is bright, gets Bs and the occasional A or C. She asked me if I think she should apply to Oxford and I said “No not for your undergrad. Maybe if you work really really hard at uni and do extracurriculars and things while you’re there and come out with a first you could try for your masters if you want to do one, but it’s not really an option at this moment in time.” All seemed fine, we carried on and she seemed okay. Fast forward to now and I just had SIL on the phone shouting at me that I crushed her dreams and that she was going to apply and get in and show me (etc). I said I’d love it if she did, I’d be absolutely thrilled if she got in to spite me.
I don’t think I was harsh when I told her, I don’t think it was cruel. I think it’s kind of my job to tell her. I didn’t rule it out in the future because I feel like once she’s at uni she will flourish academically because she will have more freedom etc and I’ve told her this many times. I feel horrible that I’ve upset her but I genuinely think it was the right thing to do.
I sent her a message saying I am sorry if I came off harsh or anything I just want what is best for her. Also spoke to DB who said SIL was just angry because niece was upset and that he thinks I did the right thing. Bit miffed that he let her speak to me like that, but also when she goes off best thing to do is stay out the crossfire.
Am I in the wrong and just blind to it?

If she’s at 6 form then surly she knows her predicted grades? If they are not all A’s then Oxford isn’t realistic. My dd got mainly all 9’s in GCSE and was predicted A’s at A level, she looked at Oxford but ended up not applying, she has 3 offers from Russel group uni’s, most offered her AAB. She decided against a different uni which was a good choice as she ended up getting ABC, one of her friends went to Cambridge but only just got in, she has all A’s and A*’s (4 a levels). Even if you get all A’s you could still get turned away or not get through the interview process.

It’s good to be realistic. I do think schools often get students hopes up and push them to apply, my DD’s school were very pushy.

YANBU, but it was never going to be will received and your SIL may well end up trying to blame you when her DD doesn’t get in.

I assumed OP was being asked in her capacity as a personal tutor rather than as an aunt. As an aunt I might have been slightly more diplomatic, but as a tutor being asked for her professional opinion, it was perfectly reasonable to give the answer she did. As the girl's personal tutor in her A level subjects, of course she is in a position to say what the girl is capable of, she sees it all the time.

My son wants to apply to Oxford. I have simply told him that he will have to work much harder than he does now because it's extremely difficult to get into and that even students with all A*s don't get in so it's best to have a plan B. I don't think his chances are high but at the very least I hope it will inspire him to work as hard as he can and revise more than he does now, which is not much. He's in Year 11 and has just visited Oxford as part of their Step Up programme for state schools. During the trip they were talked to by current Oxford students who did not get straight A's and still got in, so it's definitely based on more than that.

I think you should say ,not sure and to try anyway. Sometimes least said the better!

I think it's fine to have a lower GCSE grade in a non-important subject, say Maths, if you read History, just one or two, but not beyond that. Also, people that went even 10 years ago, let alone when I went 30 years ago, there's been huge grade inflation, so they are looking at the very highest grades in A levels, understandably- a B is not a B in old money, it's a C.

Even though you know she won't get in, I don't think it was right to tell her that.
I always remember my Maths teacher telling me I wasn't good enough for her top set class and I wouldn't get above a C. Well I did.

Unless exceptional circumstances, her GCSE results alone would prevent her from being considered. She (and her mother) should know that if they are so interested in Oxford. You are the fall guy OP!

Given that you can only apply for 5 courses, there may be harm in applying if it prevents her from looking at more suitable courses.

Did you go to Oxford, OP?

Not necessarily. Similarly, Oxford like to see 7 x grade 7/8/9s at GCSE, but the individual application is considered in its entirety.

This^

I’m YANBU

I'm sure you were kind, professional and your advice was spot on.

Unfortunately you have scrapped the dreams your DN and SIL were aspiring to. If a tutor said this they would be disappointed but as a member of family they have taken it personally.

Give them time and a wide berth and they will eventually understand.

I'm in the US, and we hired a private college (uni) admissions counselor for both of my kids. After reviewing their academic records, the first thing she did with them was help them select schools to apply to based on their preferences for small vs large, distance from home, city vs suburban, etc. She was brutally honest with them about what schools were just not realistic options for them. It's part of the service we paid for.

No they don't. You are mistaken. An Oxbridge application is all about the subject and supra curricular relating to the subject.

You need 3 x A*, simple as. YANBU. And every applicant has that so you need to stand out. My kid is at Oxford and the interview was all about her other interests and the fact she's won competitions in her chosen sport (not rowing - we are poor, state school and Northern)

All rounders my foot. You need to very academic in your field and rowing is just a past time.

You did right. Oxford will only ever take a very few and the self motivation to do it is obvious for years before application

YANBU at all! What planet is she living on!? It's a long time since I was at University, but I got turned down for Oxford and I had four starred As at A-level! (I was accepted for the interview but failed it) I was fine as I ended up going to UCL, which was actually a better fit for me. Your niece won't make it there, either though. She needs to get real.

Yeah, it could very well be that she excels in a university rather than school environment, being that bit older and focusing on a subject she really loves.

A friend of mine got shocking A levels, went back to college to do an access course after a few years working in retail, got into a decent uni and did AMAZINGLY. From there he went on to do a Masters and then a PhD at Cambridge. It can happen!

I think given her current grades you did the kindest thing (and I was all ready to say YABU initially as students are generally advised to pop one 'reach' uni on their UCAS form, but Oxford with Bs isn't so much a reach as completely not a chance!).

I'd be interested to know if anyone has a child who was a B student in Y12 and upped their game enough to get into Oxford.

Also just to be clear we have a close relationship, she is round mine at least once most weeks and stays over often. She comes to me for advice a lot on stuff and I always tell it to her straight which she has always said she appreciates so I didn’t expect her to be upset. Also she replied to my text and said it’s okay then started talking about an upcoming plan we have together on Sunday so she seems alright. I don’t want to bring it up again but the thought that I’ve upset her bugs me, and the fact she seemed for the other two hours I was with her.

I don’t think you needed to kill the idea stone dead and I don’t think it was your place to. I would have said something like most applicants will be getting all As which you currently aren’t so you are going to have to really get your grades up to be realistic.

To be fair my SIL has always been happy to use me as a babysitter and tutor but we have never seen eye to eye so it would just be adding to the long list of things that are my fault. At the end of the day I don’t have to like her or spend much time with her - she’s a good mum and that’s all I care about. You’re probably right tho.

Reality check for her and mum. Well said, I just wish parents were more honest with their kids.