To have told my niece she won’t make it into Oxford uni?

[Awfulaunt]

Hi all,
first off sorry if there’s typos I’m typing this on my phone.
for context, I’ve been a private tutor for years, mainly English and History. Over the years I’ve helped with lots of UCAS and applications including a few oxbridge ones. My niece is at the age where she’s thinking about uni and her parents asked me to tutor her for English and History, I agreed. She is bright, gets Bs and the occasional A or C. She asked me if I think she should apply to Oxford and I said “No not for your undergrad. Maybe if you work really really hard at uni and do extracurriculars and things while you’re there and come out with a first you could try for your masters if you want to do one, but it’s not really an option at this moment in time.” All seemed fine, we carried on and she seemed okay. Fast forward to now and I just had SIL on the phone shouting at me that I crushed her dreams and that she was going to apply and get in and show me (etc). I said I’d love it if she did, I’d be absolutely thrilled if she got in to spite me.
I don’t think I was harsh when I told her, I don’t think it was cruel. I think it’s kind of my job to tell her. I didn’t rule it out in the future because I feel like once she’s at uni she will flourish academically because she will have more freedom etc and I’ve told her this many times. I feel horrible that I’ve upset her but I genuinely think it was the right thing to do.
I sent her a message saying I am sorry if I came off harsh or anything I just want what is best for her. Also spoke to DB who said SIL was just angry because niece was upset and that he thinks I did the right thing. Bit miffed that he let her speak to me like that, but also when she goes off best thing to do is stay out the crossfire.
Am I in the wrong and just blind to it?

You know, from the title, I thought you were unreasonable, but having read it, I think you might just spur that kid on to graft her arse off and get in anyway.

Again. She may surprise you.

Bs and Cs, mostly Cs and one A in music. she has struggled with dyslexia and the school weren’t great with support tho (college are much better). I do seriously thinks she will do well at uni, probably really well because she will be able to chose what she does more. I do think maybe Oxford or Cambridge or whatever she wants once she finds her feet at uni because she has a really good writing style and when it’s something she’s interested in she gets really into it.

This. I'd knuckle down out of spite.

Being specifically coached for Oxford I think ups your chances considerably, because they are looking for more than just ability in the subject you intend to study, they are looking for indivduals who can contribute in sport and in social life as well.

Quite a few people get very low grades offered because they do so well at the interview. But to do well at the interview you really need to be coached. My guess is someone who is less intelligent and coached will stand a far better chance than someone of very high intelligence and has no coaching.

As long as you were kind, I don't think you were unreasonable. There is SO much competition for Oxford and Cambridge, if she averages at a B grade it's a very unrealistic goal unfortunately.

@xsquared I suspect it's a bonus if you're also a gifted rower.

Almost spat my tea out. I'm at Durham and it's bad enough there 😭🤣

Interesting is this different for Cambridge? When DS discussed this at his 6th form college with a second year student in History, she told us that she had been offered a place at Cambridge despite have two 6s, one in Math's.

That's not true. They don't care in the slightest about extracurriculars unless they are a strong indicator of specific subject interest. Colleges are quite clear that they are looking for depth of knowledge and passion in a specific area rather than an 'all-rounder'. Interviewers will not ask about your grade 4 music exam or debating society. You don't win a Nobel prize for rowing.

There was no contextual offer either.

Are you a student? I live in Durham too.

You gave her realistic and constructive advice, nothing to feel bad about. There would be no point in telling her of course she’ll get in she’s a wonderful human being, when her grades indicate she wouldn’t.

She can still aim high but be equipped with a realistic backup plan if her grades don’t miraculously improve to straight As in the meantime.

But to even GET to the interview stage you need to pretty much have all As/A*s in GCSEs (or 7s and above these days) and be predicted As in your A Levels. There is no way they will invite someone to interview who got Bs and Cs in their GCSEs and isn’t predicted top A Levels (unless perhaps they are from a ‘widening participation’ background, but even then they will likely only accept the odd B…)

Yes! Doing my master's. I don't live there though.

What a daft question! Many parents can have all sorts of aspirations for and make all sorts of assumptions about their child or children regardless of the number of children they have.

She’s not in year nine she’s at sixth form college doing History, English, English lit sorry for the confusion

The student I am referring to with Cambridge offer had no contextual offer but they had 2 6s, she made a point of expressing her surprise with us.

I mean she asked so I suppose YANBU but this age group is very sensitive IMO.

I've always been grateful to my a level physics teacher who kindly told me I wasn't up for a physics degree due to my inadequate maths. He was right. I did another stem degree and PhD instead.

Building false hope is cruel.

I think that the title of your thread is misleading. You told niece that she wouldn’t make it to Oxford NOW, which isn’t the same as she wouldn’t ever make it to Oxford.

Your words might just spur her on. A teacher once told me when I was about 9 that I probably wouldn't be a journalist (my dream job) because it was super competitive. His words stayed with me. My first job after uni was as a news reporter.

I don't think you did wrong, realism is important. But I'd probably have kept the dream alive and softened it a bit - "maybe if you work really, really hard, you might just make As, but we've got some work to do first" type thing." Total over-reaction from sil though.

Someone who has interests outside of their subject will stand out over those who don't.

I'm not talking about things you will have done back in year 9, but current interests that will give you an edge over other applicants such as being a gifted athlete and therefore potential Oxford Blue material.

My son didn’t get an interview with 3 x A* and 97% on average in every A level paper he did (and mainly 9’s and 3 8’s in GCSE). So I think you were right to tell her it’s unlikely. I mean she would have to massively pull her socks up if she wanted to apply. Everyone applying has top grades

Depends on the subject and College. Plus sometimes extra curriculars as previously mentioned.

This is one of those difficult situations in which you put your professional hat on and told the truth, but your SIL wanted you to have the auntie hat on and say 'go for it'! Thing is, the school won't encourage her to apply for Oxbridge anyway, even the grade offers at the top 10-20 unis, are all A and A* and even more so for Oxbridge, she's not in the right territory, and applying is hard extra work and need an early application. Often these days you have to sit tests, or produce essays to be submitted much earlier than for the other universities, as well as have the kind of grades they are interested in. She isn't in that territory currently and that's ok as there's about 150 other unis to choose from!