To have told my niece she won’t make it into Oxford uni?

[Awfulaunt]

Hi all,
first off sorry if there’s typos I’m typing this on my phone.
for context, I’ve been a private tutor for years, mainly English and History. Over the years I’ve helped with lots of UCAS and applications including a few oxbridge ones. My niece is at the age where she’s thinking about uni and her parents asked me to tutor her for English and History, I agreed. She is bright, gets Bs and the occasional A or C. She asked me if I think she should apply to Oxford and I said “No not for your undergrad. Maybe if you work really really hard at uni and do extracurriculars and things while you’re there and come out with a first you could try for your masters if you want to do one, but it’s not really an option at this moment in time.” All seemed fine, we carried on and she seemed okay. Fast forward to now and I just had SIL on the phone shouting at me that I crushed her dreams and that she was going to apply and get in and show me (etc). I said I’d love it if she did, I’d be absolutely thrilled if she got in to spite me.
I don’t think I was harsh when I told her, I don’t think it was cruel. I think it’s kind of my job to tell her. I didn’t rule it out in the future because I feel like once she’s at uni she will flourish academically because she will have more freedom etc and I’ve told her this many times. I feel horrible that I’ve upset her but I genuinely think it was the right thing to do.
I sent her a message saying I am sorry if I came off harsh or anything I just want what is best for her. Also spoke to DB who said SIL was just angry because niece was upset and that he thinks I did the right thing. Bit miffed that he let her speak to me like that, but also when she goes off best thing to do is stay out the crossfire.
Am I in the wrong and just blind to it?

Hi, OP - if your niece is in 6th form getting mostly Bs and Cs it is going to be very difficult for her to bring her predicted grades up to Oxford standard for the October application deadline.

Possibly you will have lit a fire under her and that’s great, she would not have been motivated otherwise. If you didn’t light this fire, and maybe even if you did, she likely isn’t ready for Oxford now. I agree with PPs that possibly the mum is more upset than your niece. I think what you did was fine (former Russell Gp admissions tutor)

Yes I’d have liked him to lock her away in the kitchen and tell her women should be seen and not heard 🙄
obviously not but I’d have maybe liked some backing from my own brother since he agrees with me and maybe a “don’t speak to my sister like that”

I think parents do themselves no favours when they aren’t realistic with their kids. Definitely support them with their dreams but channel realistic ones.

You absolutely did the right thing, she might now be spurred on to prove you wrong and I hope she does. But you definitely did the right thing, hopefully your DB will speak to her and explain you actually did your niece a kindness.

If hard work were all it took. It isn't.

You did the right thing, lying to kids is not going to be helpful in the long run. If my kid was getting the occasional A I’d be steering her to more realistic options myself, it’s cruel to do anything other than that.

This is my understanding too. They used to - and they should – but in reality all they care about is how good you are at your chosen subject, and that you have really solid A level and GCSE grades that prove your capacity to work like a dog on top of your inherent brilliance and passion for the subject.

Perhaps given her mediocre talents, she'd do better as Prime Minister.

My son got an interview with only one 8 and one 7 at GCSE, the rest were 6s and one 5. He did have extenuating circumstances but not ones that normally fall within the remit for contextualised offers/ widening participation.

He did have 3 A* for A level predictions.

He wasn't offered a place but scored highly enough in the subject test to fall comfortably in the interview remit.

Bit miffed that he let her speak to me like that

what am I reading? On what planet does a man decide what a woman can and cannot say and give permission??

This. @Awfulaunt

You were unnecessarily impolitic.

”if you want to apply for Oxford you will need all grade 9’s, as well as X Y Z extra curricular stuff and reading”.

If she has dyslexia it might be worth her looking at their foundation year. I'm not sure what the criteria are for applications but it's designed for people who wouldn't make it through the traditional application process and I think it's completely subsidised.

I went to Cambridge and got B's in some of my GCSE's.

It's not true you need 8/9's across the board.

It's much more important you are interested in and good at your subject.

I did get very good marks in the entrance exam that they had then.

Here we go:

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/foundation-year#eligibility

Yes we did the open days etc and they said they don’t care what your hobbies are, for Oxbridge they only want to know about stuff related to the degree. Made it hard for my son as Oxford was one of 5 options, and only one personal statement of course

Grade 4 music, no. County cricketer, maybe...

I think everything that has needed to be said has been said apart from this.

you are a really lovely auntie to help tutor your neice. I wish my aunts had been so supportive and helpful to tutor me. You also seem lovely to be genuinely examining yourself in having disappointed her.

For what it’s worth, I agree, she hasn’t a hope in hell. I remember one of my pals, an absolute genius, who had 9 A*s at GCSE getting pulled up In oxford interview because of her one ‘weak’ grade (an A in french). She scraped in because she was able to show she’d taught herself arabic in her spare time 😂

I don’t think you did anything wrong however I wouldn’t have said an outright no. I’d have just explained what’s needed and how competitive it is. Even though it’s unlikely she’ll get in, having a high target to aim for can motivate some.

Sounds like you said it kindly, and with the best of intentions. You were not unreasonable.

They are genuinely not interested in extras, even sport.

Absolutely. Ds tripped up in a few exams, but was genuinely obsessed with his chosen subject. I guess that shone through during the interview.

Personally, I would’ve kept quiet and just murmured a few words of encouragement. Her predicted grades following year 12 mocks would’ve (obvs depending on the marks) made her realise she can’t apply anyway. Also, no matter how clever or bright a child may appear to be there’s no set formula for who gets an Oxbridge offer - you’d be surprised by some of the kids they do accept - so you shouldn’t really put someone off from applying if they have the grades.
Surprisingly, Oxbridge don’t look that closely at GCSE grades or extracurriculars - they don’t care about your grade 7 in piano. But, they do care about your super curriculars eg: attending seminars in your chosen subjects or reading academic books beyond anything you’ve been taught in school

I can assure you that isn’t the case. No one has the remotest interest in your extracurricular feats. And master’s courses at Oxford are nowhere near as competitive as the undergraduate ones.

This.
Super curriculars. Going above and beyond in your chosen subject.

@Awfulaunt By the way, I get your guilt. An adult ed student of mine on a one week intensive course told me I was her referee for Harvard - for a subject I hadn't taught her. She'd already put me down without asking me. I refused. I knew nothing about her grades, I'd never even marked an essay by her, had zero knowledge of her ability in her chosen subject but was pretty sure she hadn't a hope in hell of getting into Harvard. She was really insistent and then sulky. I felt so mean. And I barely knew her.

I think you were wrong to tell her you didn’t think she should apply. You should have focused on explaining the grades she would need, giving her realistic expectations of how competitive it is, and also emphasising that there are lots of other great Uni’s, etc. But telling her she shouldn’t apply was a shitty move tbh. I’d be annoyed with you too. Who are you to say what she’s capable of ? She’s your niece you should be building her up not putting her down. YABU.