To think men just hate women?

[Justsomethoughts]

The more I think about it, the more I conclude that men must despise us. I think the news today about Wayne Couzens has got me pondering… My thoughts as follows:

Ive read so many threads on here about how little men contribute to household work.
Women are expected to do 99% of housework and childcare whilst sucking it up and looking pretty. This percentage doesn’t seem to change much if they also work. God forbid women complain (I refuse to use the word nag, a word only used by men when talking about women!) as they asked for a family and should be grateful they have a husband and children.

We should look visually appealing/maintain our appearance for as long as possible but not too much - that would be ‘asking for it’. If we don’t we will probably be replaced by a younger/more attractive model.

We can’t walk alone at night as we are at risk of harm (by men).

A very large proportion of female homicides are committed by males living with the victim

The list goes on and on. I know these aren’t brand new facts and obviously ‘not all men’ before people come for me but my god it’s so depressing when you think about it.

I don’t think most men actively HATE women but I think they’re brimming with subconscious bias and an entitlement they don’t even consider unless it’s actively pointed out to them. Contempt, basically. And that’s your average bloke.

I am a man and I do not hate women, as such I would say in the specific cases you mention YANBU, but in general YABU.

Hmm. I think that women are the most informed people to comment on this.
And that men's opinions aren't really relevant. Or wanted.
In general.

Contempt- that’s the word I was looking for!

The older I get, the more I resent the impact men as a class have on women as a class. The appalling, epidemic level violence is the tip of an enormous iceberg made of contempt, hatred and selfish entitlement.

And at the thin end of the wedge are the "nice" men who feel good about themselves for treating the women in their lives like human beings, while their only contribution to the horrors their sex perpetrates on women is yipping "namalt!" whenever we try to talk about it.

Some men hate women. I think lots more have a veneer of treating women as nearly equals, to the point that they probably even convince themselves they believe it, but deep down they feel that women are there for their pleasure and convenience, and that that is actually how the world is supposed to be. And then there are some actual genuine good guys.

Pretty much, yeah.

Mostly not active rage filled hatred but there's widespread low level contempt and very much a feeling a woman's role is at least in part as domestic appliance.

Coupled with typical male entitlement in the form of the belief their wants and needs should be prioritised and reactions ranging from bewilderment to rage if that is not the case, and yeah, it's something that feels very much like hate.

On MN I think a lot of women must be married to useless men. In real life, the men/dads I have met all seem to do 50% of housework etc, and when they aren’t at work at least 50% of the childcare work.

NAMALT/Not my Nigel. Sorry, just wanted to get in first but yes, in general I agree OP.

Yup. Germaine Greer knew it. But she got silenced in recent years.

So OP does your father, male partners, son's, cousins, uncles etc. does every male in your life hate you?

no not every male hates women

Well we can only draw from our own experiences, I'm glad you feel informed enough to place such a low value on the experience a man chose to share, given the question being asked is about what men feel.

I don't think the majority of men hate women until it's pointed out that their comfortable lives depend on a lot of invisible, unacknowledged female labour, that it's not fair, and that they should start pulling their weight. To be honest, if I was a man I'd probably be outraged too. Who wouldn't kick off at losing a cushy number?

I would actually say the ‘left wing, feminist men’ are the worst of the lot. At least with your typical sexist knuckle dragger it’s apparent and undeniable. The left wing types are sexist in a kind of insidious, superior way where they pretend to advocate for women but are actually just enjoying the feeling of ‘knowing what’s best for them’ and it usually involves mansplaining and TWAW.

Well the men in my life don’t hate women. My DH, my father, my grandfathers. My father in law and uncles. Oh and my BIL and his father.
They have many wives, daughters and granddaughters between them. The women in our family are the driving force.
SOME men hate women or hold them in contempt. Not all.

You’re articulating what’s in my head (much better than I could).
On another note, I also have this feeling of the contempt worsening as women age- presumably now we are less attractive and more knackered.

Sounds like a lovely family dynamic! It makes me happy hearing of MN examples where men are happily getting involved!

There's a saying that goes "when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels likes oppression" and I think that's how a lot of men feel about women and that applies to the decent men too who might not consider themselves part of the problem but do still benefit from the privilege that comes with being male in a society that favours men.

For the purposes of discussion, I'm not using "men" and "women" to refer to individuals and instead mean men/women as a general class. We all have individual men we love and admire ("Not My Nigel!") but as a class they are problematic.

I think a man is allowed to comment on whether he holds contempt for women or not.

Yes, you are being highly unreasonable and I (as a woman) welcome anyone's opinion including the man that posted earlier

The NAMALT's will be along soon enough.

But yes. I've said this for ages. As a sex class, I know who to be weary of. And it doesn't have to be as an extreme as rape/murder. It's as little as an insult and everything in between. And I have a wonderful partner/decent brother.

I don’t think most men hate us as such, but I do think the vast majority don’t see us as equal. They don’t admit it though.

I think there is definitely a significant number of men who don’t give a shit about women as people. They only care that women service their needs and are blind to the selfish and arrogant privilege they display.

Then there are the toxic, dangerous ones where the mentality tips over into darkness.

…But then I think about the lovely gentle men in our family and friends who are caring, respectful, supportive and nurturing. My own two young adult dds are proof of the self esteem and benefit from being brought up around strong, loving male role models.

So YABU. Lots of men are shit but not all of them.

I don't think men hate us. At least not by defaul. I think, as a group, they tend to be more selfish and violent / aggressive, which makes a bad combination especially combined with their greater strength in average.

So when a man doesn't do household chores I don't think it's because he wants to punish the woman or women in his house. I think in most cases it's just because he doesn't want to do it and doesn't feel bad that this means that others are doing it for him.

This. I've had moments where I have realised even men I consider friends don't quite see women as people.