To think men just hate women?

[Justsomethoughts]

The more I think about it, the more I conclude that men must despise us. I think the news today about Wayne Couzens has got me pondering… My thoughts as follows:

Ive read so many threads on here about how little men contribute to household work.
Women are expected to do 99% of housework and childcare whilst sucking it up and looking pretty. This percentage doesn’t seem to change much if they also work. God forbid women complain (I refuse to use the word nag, a word only used by men when talking about women!) as they asked for a family and should be grateful they have a husband and children.

We should look visually appealing/maintain our appearance for as long as possible but not too much - that would be ‘asking for it’. If we don’t we will probably be replaced by a younger/more attractive model.

We can’t walk alone at night as we are at risk of harm (by men).

A very large proportion of female homicides are committed by males living with the victim

The list goes on and on. I know these aren’t brand new facts and obviously ‘not all men’ before people come for me but my god it’s so depressing when you think about it.

Twisted

Meanwhile DH is showing my DS the ladies football etc with pride....

Ive never heard any of the men i know disparage female sportspeople, pundit etc at all.

You don’t get to speak for me. I welcome men’s opinion on this.

I've just finished reading a book about jack the rippers victims and thinking in over a hundred years absolutely nothing has changed .

It wasn't really about the football element, it was that word 'nobody' being attached to who would want to listen to women (not even included in the anyBODY bit)

You don't think anything has changed since 1888?

At A-level I teach feminist texts and feminist studies. I agree with a previous poster, it’s not about men hating women - men will always aim to be “top dog” and see everyone and everything as a competition.

This ideology has bred from the dawn of time (we start with the first text, the Bible, and move forwards), I’m not sure how you go about challenging centuries of ingrained ideas!

I like what a PP said about not settling, not even settling to be with a man who congratulates themselves for collecting the kids. I didn’t meet my DH til 27 as I wanted an equal. There was no way I’d be compromising my life for a family, if my partner didn’t do the same. Yes, we have disagreements but I never feel that I’m the invisible help in the house. I do worry for my DD though - she’s used to seeing a “feminist” household, with the onslaught of porn culture and reality TV, I think women’s equality has reversed and if will find what is her “normal”.

I find the tendency in some groups of women to silence other women by mocking them (NAMALT, internalized misogyny, cool girl etc) as depressing if not more than the way that some men hold women in contempt.

Women who claim to support women should not be using bullying tactics to silence anyone who disagrees.

Likewise telling a man their opinion isn’t wanted in a discussion about how men feel. If you don’t want to hear opinions, just write a diary.

I use this site because I’m a parent.
Let’s be honest: if I wrote a created a thread making broad generalisations about women it’d be locked and deleted quickly, and rightly so. The double standards by some posters here are quite astonishing.

2 women a week getting murdered by men isn't rare though is it. That's just in the UK

I would call that pretty common. So common in fact, that it's mostly not even bothered to be reported in the press.

I don't think men hate women.

The issue is men love themselves, and expect every other creature on the planet to give way to their wants and needs. If women & children happen to get in the way of that, they just aren't that bothered.

Most of the posts on the site as a whole suggest it

Isn’t this response a bit like someone going into a room, being met with abuse and then told ‘if you don’t like it, there’s the door’?

Is it not worth reflecting on the tone of the discussion in the first place rather than saying that the person coming in is the problem?

I think a lot of men hate the fact that they need women.

Some men hate us, but I think most of them just harbour the belief that they are in some way more deserving, perhaps more superior, more useful, than we are. And so, they explain away inequalities and ignore the men who actually do hate us because it's not their problem.

My point being, they don't all need to hate us. The group that do are enabled by the rest of them. It's a successful system that's worked for centuries.

Having said that, I think if women looked through their husband's search history and discovered their porn appetites, they might wonder whether their Nigel does in fact harbour some hatred.

@Justsomethoughts

I think 🤔 it's real big insecurities issues about themselves some certain men feel about themselves,
cause plenty of societies put men on pedestal traditionally and contemporary times in position of power by default even in our supposedly more enlightened progressive Western societies,

that men feel they have to live up or down to this way of thinking morals values just to exist get by in life,

I think it's like The emperor with new clothes kind of syndrome,
olde worlde story,
It's like walking on tightrope a balance between having to disguise hide deflect vulnerabilities as it's percieved as weak characteristic

Also i think weak man child men have this 🤔 maddonna/whore syndrome
I think they are in awe of that women can give birth to new life ect,
but don't want to show this,

Essentially that type of man will mock belittle find fault with whatever he feels in danger of those insecurities or other feelings that he feels uncomfortable and undesirable feelings being exposed in some way any way,

And you have guessed women are convient go to scapegoat for insecure man child as obviously everyone including themselves is natural human need for companiship feel ❤️ validated ect,

But you have to self aware be vunerable think about someone else and others not just yourself for successful relantship partnership ect,

And there's that's the big dilemma the elephant 🐘 in the room for the insecure man child emotionally imature type of misogynistic guy,

I don't want her know just how needy i am for this elusive wonderful thing called love ect

Mind you men don't need to hate women, women do enough of that themselves and if you don't agree with the collective 'well you must be a man'

I’m reading Caitlin Moran’s book ‘What About Men’ at the moment. It has made me question what I’ve thought previously. It prompted a chat with my 15yo son (9yo daughter joined in too). Both think it’s probably nicer to be a woman, my son’s opinion is that society trusts and like women but are suspicious of men. We both agreed that this is the fault of your average arsehole man who causes this fear, not women, but that still makes him think he’s one of the shitty sex. I’ve brought him up with my feminist beliefs but I want him to be genuinely happy about being a man. There are a lot of good things about the men in my life, him being one of them. My daughter just thinks women are again a bit better and is quite happy to be one.

I don’t think every man hates women, I think probably some men probably want what we have instead (more support, more understanding, women are excellent at supporting women, men aren’t good with other men - actually my husband is trying there). However some of the stuff I read on here makes me genuinely despair, the bar is set very low for how some men think they can behave. This contempt will have very complex reasons and I don’t think the Revolution of the last century in terms of women’s rights is anywhere near done yet. Finding a positive place for men as part of that is still to come. In the meantime we have some very toxic men kicking about annoyed at a loss of privilege, some very confused boys looking for answers and a load of bog standard men bumbling along.

Many of us have sons here, surely we have an input into the upcoming generations?

NAMALT's ??

I am quite encouraged by my DS and their male friends - all in their 20s. I don't know if we are lucky or sheltered, but they seem to unquestioningly accept equality. I did raise two feminist sons. They have male and female friends and everyone is on a par and treated equally. When I talk to them (M&F) they are interested in equality and fairness in all areas not just among the genders. They very much want a work-life balance and aren't status driven. They don't seem the least bit competitive - except when playing sport or gaming and the men and the women are like that and it's not 100% serious. DS and his GF have a lovely relationship. Parenthood seems to be a long way off, so things may change if/when that happens. They all have a different outlook on life to DS's cousins who are in their 30s. Eldest DS gets incensed by incels, etc, which has come up in our conversations. One of my nieces says she is not a feminist (I despair) and DS can't comprehend how she can say that. Honestly, during these pretty bleak times they give me hope.

The worst type of man is a “father of daughters” - someone who doesn’t believe things should change until it directly affects them. Until men start wanting a fair and equal world beyond the women they’re directly related to, things will remain the same.

So now it’s the fault of the person being abused for even having the audacity to join the conversation? 🤦🏼‍♀️. Honestly this is utter madness.

To flip roles, a woman is aware that a conversation is happening about how women should not be allowed to work and should stay at home, if she steps into that conversation to say ‘hang on a minute….’ And is met with abuse and told to clear off ‘we’re talking about you, not to you’ essentially. She is the problem - not the people talking in that way?

Agree, OP.