To think men just hate women?

[Justsomethoughts]

The more I think about it, the more I conclude that men must despise us. I think the news today about Wayne Couzens has got me pondering… My thoughts as follows:

Ive read so many threads on here about how little men contribute to household work.
Women are expected to do 99% of housework and childcare whilst sucking it up and looking pretty. This percentage doesn’t seem to change much if they also work. God forbid women complain (I refuse to use the word nag, a word only used by men when talking about women!) as they asked for a family and should be grateful they have a husband and children.

We should look visually appealing/maintain our appearance for as long as possible but not too much - that would be ‘asking for it’. If we don’t we will probably be replaced by a younger/more attractive model.

We can’t walk alone at night as we are at risk of harm (by men).

A very large proportion of female homicides are committed by males living with the victim

The list goes on and on. I know these aren’t brand new facts and obviously ‘not all men’ before people come for me but my god it’s so depressing when you think about it.

[Men are about 6 times more likely to be killed by a stranger, by the way.]

Yes and who from? Males or females?

It isn't just about the murder. It's the fact that Wayne Couzens' red flag behaviour was seen as unimportant, because after all, his victims were only women.
As for murder being a rare event, perhaps. Domestic violence, assault, harassment, and just plain terrible behaviour from men is not.

I haven’t RTFT but yep, they hate us. Germaine Greer called it years ago.

Yet women are desperate to get one

That's a raging case of internalised misogyny you have there @WandaWonder

Could be or could be sick of 'all women are saints and all men are evil'

Yes very likely males. But doesn’t that disprove the premise ‘men just hate women’? It seems men hate men more if they are at a higher rate of being killed.

Literally nobody said that.

Whenever these threads come up, posters always say women are equally terrible, and then talk about Cheryl at the school gates who ignored them, or Margaret in accounts who was nasty to them...

Coming from a foreign country where women aren't treated very well, I find it amazing how so many are oblivious to the massive problem of male violence. No one is saying all women are saints. What some of us are saying is that women bitching is not a global problem. There aren't whole organisations devoted to the problem of solving female violence.

Absolutely. And I don't think "oh, but it can't be true that they hate women, look, they're murdering each other as well!" is quite the gotcha @Ladyluckinred thinks it is.

Every man who hates women, or uses women for their emotional labour, or sexually objectifies women, or holds contempt for women, is someone's brother, father, uncle, or husband.

To those of you who think the men in your life are excluded or special in some way - you are a part of the problem. The way a man treats the women close to him is not indicative of his view of women as a class - how he treats you is not how he views all women, because you are one of his women and are kept in a separate box from "other" women.
Please stop protecting them and peel your eyes wide open. Men are extremely good at compartmentalising and projecting an image of themselves that can be drastically different from what lies beneath. Just take a look at any thread where a wife is distraught and shocked after discovering her husband's internet history... Or speak to any woman who works in a male dominated environment, about what these "lovely, good men" are like when their wives, sisters, daughters, and mothers are not around.

Men need to be trained and taught how to respect women as equals. This absolutely does not come naturally to any of them, and even those who become aware of themselves and their privilege, require frequent guidance and correcting - this is something most of them simply are not willing to accept from women, and they sure as shit aren't going to receive it from other men. They've been taught their whole lives that they are superior to us and that we exist only to support them, pleasure them, and facilitate their success in life.
This starts very early on (i.e. the different behavioural expectations placed on boys and girls) and is only reinforced as they grow older. It takes a herculean emotional and psychological effort to undo that, and most of them just aren't willing to make that effort, because the status quo benefits them far too greatly.

My ‘Nigel’ is pretty supportive of women’s status and opportunities. We were discussing trans identifying men participating in women’s sports ( which he has actively campaigned against in a sport where he has influence) and he remarked that he thought ‘ a lot of men just don’t like women much’.

I suppose he would know.

Actually, I don’t like most men that much, either, although I had only just realised it after a fairly long and not unpleasant life. I just find them rather loud and boring.

Actually, I don’t like most men that much, either, although I had only just realised it after a fairly long and not unpleasant life. I just find them rather loud and boring.

😀I am pretty loud and boring myself, so I won't claim that all men are loud and boring. Both DH and DS are very softspoken/quiet.

I know what you mean. It's how I feel about white people and their mentality.

Wasn’t a ‘gotcha’, was a question if you have anything to add to it?

That is a lot of projecting, should they be trained like a puppy?

So well put.

they don’t respect us, feel they’re above us, feel we ought to know our place. Contempt and entitlement. 100%.

not that it’s always conscious- but a lot of the time, I believe it’s there.

White privilege and trying to be the ones to decide if something is racist and arguing with the person it happened to that its not racism because...

Yes. It is a huge problem. As is men's general disregard and contempt for women.

I think it's more a case of men thinking that they (the individual) deserve the best and they are definitely number 1 in their own minds. So they behave selfishly and society accepts this.
They treat their partners and families well only for as long as they are happy with them. Even “nice" guys.
They lash out/cheat/whatever because life isn't treating them like the special prince they think they are.
Women are often collateral damage but I think if they were partnered with another man they would still behave selfishly.

I think the vast majority of men view women as inferior

the status quo benefits them far too greatly.

^^

It comes down to this. They hold the most power. No-one wants to give up power.

Yes, of course they need to be trained. As a puppy. As children. It's called parenting, or schooling or education.

Like I said above, I don't think men hate women but I think men are more selfish and violent. These qualities I think are innate. The entitlement is learnt by growing up in a society that not only favours men but also expects men to take favours. Not sure I am explaining it well.

I think as a society and as parents (those of us who have sons) we have to actively and consciously raise boys so they learn to control their selfish and violent tendencies and we have to actively work against the entitlement and all the other crap that is being taught by society.

Otherwise how will anything ever change? How can we ever improve women's lives (and men's lives as well because it can't be fun being an arsehole)? We can legislate till the cows come home but by the age that legislation affects boys it's mostly too late already, isn't it?

Just to add, I'm actually not sure what exactly I need to do as a parent to make sure that my son becomes one of the 'good ones' but it's something I think about a lot. I have a son and a daughter and I want them to live in a society where both of them will be safe and happy and that can only happen if men stop being so violent, selfish and entitled.

Going by this thinking how many women complain how terrible their partners are and how hopeless they are as fathers then have more children with them then end up with these fathers as bad influences on their children or children grow up with no father around this appears to blame women for the way sons are raised

Maybe the best thing that can be done is if a woman is with an unsuitable man then don't stay and have children with him? or 'we have been together 4 weeks and he got me pregnant' or 'he has 4 children with 4 women and I am now pregnant with his 5th'

You say parents but women keep on saying it is them that does everything for the children so would therefore have the most influence on how they are raised?

If women don't respect themselves enough not to put up with it they are then surprised men don't respect them?

I think it's to do with the urge to dominate.

I think some men feel threatened by women. They need us much more than we need them and they know it. Some of them really are scum but thankfully not all.