Aibu to say this is theft?

[purplehatandscarf]

I have two DDs, 19 and 13. Dd19 lives away at university and dd13 lives at home with me and dh.

When DD19 went back to halls after Christmas, she called me very upset saying a lot of her new clothes somehow haven’t made it home with her, but she is sure she packed them. She drove back alone so no chance of someone else stealing her things en route.

She was very upset. She works alongside her studies and had bought herself nice clothes to wear and had been given a couple of dresses for Christmas from her nanna who lives in Spain.

This week, DD13 has appeared on TikTok doing a fashion show wearing her sister’s clothes, the ones that had gone missing from her case. She had ripped a couple of the tops at the front to give them a tie knot and turn them into crop tops. She confessed to sneaking into her sister’s room, opening her case and grabbing a handful of clothes before zipping it shut again.

I say this is theft and more than just innocent stealing a top here and there from your sibling, but DH disagrees and says this is exactly what happens with siblings.

Aibu to say this is stealing and DD13 needs to be punished? If so what punishment would you reccomend?

This. Get her off TikTok and give her one hell of a shock. She’s 13, not 6. Her lack of respect for other people’s property is astounding.

And yes, I’d probably go further and make her life a little bit unpleasant to drive the point home eg like removing her favourite clothes.

You need to come down hard on this otherwise you will be letting down your oldest DD. Your DH needs to have a big rethink of his parenting approach. His way would risk your relationship with DD19. I’m sure he wouldn’t be quite so laid back if the damage had been done to his clothes.

Obviously unacceptable behaviour but what the hell is your child doing parading around on tik tok in crop tops?

Is it? She clearly doesn't understand that what's she's done would be upsetting for her sister. The blatant disregard for her sisters stuff and feelings is worrying. She needs to feel it from sisters perspective to understand why it was wrong.

Maybe instead like someone else said, give some of her things to charity. Or maybe tell her they items have been given to charity and return them to her once she has paid back her sister.

I say this is theft and more than just innocent stealing a top here and there from your sibling, but DH disagrees and says this is exactly what happens with siblings.

DH is a knob. Chores for money and the money goes to older sister. And to make sure the point really sits, it is chores every day, no exception. And during the Time of Chores, younger DD gets no new clothes etc, only things that she really cannot be without (underwear, school stuff). And if you would have bought her, say, a new pair of jeans, that money goes to the big sister clothes fund.

And she apologies, sincerely in person, to her sister and acknowledges that what she did was really not on.

I would worry about what's going on here, to be honest. Has she explained why se was so incredibly mean to her sister?

She sounds like a disaster waiting to happen if this is not nipped in the bud right now.

To be absolutely just, I would make her return undamaged clothing laundered and ironed properly.
The damaged stuff - if she does not have pocket money or savings, I would confiscate similar number of new and well loved clothing from here permanently. She needs to be given some idea of what losses feel like.
I would then make her pay a compensation fee, for the inconvenience and distress caused and as a sort of fine for such dishonesty.

You are teaching both your daughters about the world and you’ll be doing them no favours if you are teaching one that theft and dishonesty and betrayal are not that serious, and you are teaching the other one to be a doormat for others and that her hard won property and her feelings have no value.

It’s your responsibility to sort this out between your girls.

Punishment is an awful word and not something I relish.

She needs to be made to understand that her behaviour was mean and absolutely classed as theft. Especially as she has been destructive in the process.

At the very least she should be made to apologise to her sister and replace the clothes from her own monet, be that a loss of Christmas money/savings/pocket money until everything is replaced.

you could go down a kind of "restorative justice" route where your older DD gets to ransack a few similar items from younger DDs room and wreck them.
(I prefer making a good long chores list and making it so that she isn't having much time outside of school and homework and mealtimes to be getting up to mischief.

You also need to get her phone off her and replaced by a dumb phone until she can demonstrate that she can behave responsibly. parading around on TikTok at her age is troublesome.

I have three teenage daughters - 13, 16 and 18. I would be horrified if one of my daughters did this. It's not normal sibling behaviour and definitely needs dealing with. I agree with the punishment suggested by @PieAndLattes . Your eldest was understandably very upset and you need to support her in ensuring this doesn't happen again.

Tbh I am surprised that dh is so keen to minimise dd2's behaviour - does he favour the younger dc?

I think the fact that she ripped the tops pushes this very firmly into a more serious incident. It shows she had no intention of returning the tops and a complete disregard for her sister's property. She should absolutely be punished!

Tell your dh the normal sisterly clothes robbing is nicking a top for the night, hope you don’t get caught snd putting it back next day. Not what the 13yo did .

you need to find out why she did it, as it was pre meditated. remove TikTok, she pays for clothes and apologised

It is stealing. She went into a packed case knowing that her sister was taking these clothes with her and that makes it very sneaky.

she needs to apologise (and mean it) to her sister. i would also tell her she needs to not only pay for the replacements but also find them (online or wherever) and get them so that older sister isn’t inconvenience and hopefully it will be a nice boring tedious task for her

I would suggest to her that she can get a paper round, or she can do chores whether that’s qt home or for the wider family/neighbours to earn the money.

This.

Is your younger daughter remorseful at all? It’s an awful thing to do especially as your older one worked hard to earn the money to pay for the stuff!

is it normal for a 13 yr old to be making TikTok’s presumably showing off their tummy if they have altered the top to do that? Not sure I would be happy about my daughter doing that (she’s currently quite little so have all this to come!)

As other PPs have said this was a spiteful and malicious act - and suggests it was both targeted at DD19 and that your DD13 needs counselling. The fact that DH is not willing to issue consequences communicates that he neither cares enough about DD13 to respond/act, nor about DD19 to offer her support. Both DDs will find their self-esteem damaged by this, which will only feed what ever is happening between the two girls at present.

Is DD19 being ‘bigged up’ at home for doing so well at Uni, holding down a job, for being independent - and is this upsetting DD13 who does not feel valued or seen (hence the TikTok displacement focus where she may feel she is meeting these needs)? Do you need to look at what is going on in DD13s life (school, friendships) and reassure her of your high regard - is she doing well at school, does she play a team sport etc? Are you positively reinforcing her when she is doing well?

However, re the clothing, DD13 must suffer the consequences - loss of smart phone/SM; repayment of the cost to replace the clothing (ideally by a protracted working off the debt so she understands how hard it was for DD19 to earn it), and she needs to apologise (sincerely, perhaps once the impact of the consequences has done its magic). However, I think some family centred counselling (group and individual) is needed of you are to get to the bottom of this and rebuild both your DD’s self esteem hereafter.

What's she's done is awful.
But no parent in their right mind would make their child wear their school.uniform all the time 🙄

My sister used to do the exact same kind of thing with my stuff. When I would go to grab something off her, she would shout "Mum, peakygold gave me jeans/earrings/jewellery box and now she's taking it back". And mum would reply "peakygold, you can't take back something you have given". Of course your youngest must be punished or else your eldest DD will hate you forever, believe me.

I disagree with your h. It’s one thing to borrow clothes and quietly return them but damaging someone else’s clothes on purpose isn’t typical sibling behaviour. Your older dd has every right to be furious about her sibling’s devious and destructive behaviour.

I would tell dd2 to work out how to make it up to her sister eg dd2 packs and pays postage to dd1 and pays money for damaged top so dd1 can buy another.

The strange thing is that the crime wasn't discovered until the Tik Tok videos (which shouldn't be allowed at 13, FYI)

If eldest daughter's story is true then the only culprit was her younger sister unless your husband has a penchant for wearing teenage girls clothing

This is not just borrowing between siblings, even unauthorised borrowing, as the older girl doesn't live at home and the clothes were packed away in a case, clearly being taken away with her.
I also think that using the term “nicking” minimises it.
This is theft and the intention was clearly “permanently to deprive”, as the garments were altered by the younger sister, to suit her.
(Technically, it is also burglary, because the girl entered part of a dwelling she was not authorised to enter and stole.)

Therefore I think that the younger sister should be made to know in no uncertain terms that, in the outside world, she would end up being branded a thief and a criminal, which would affect her life prospects.
I would hope that the disappointment in her for her family would also affect her.
Punishment? Perhaps, as the seriousness of her actions should be emphasised.
But certainly reparation to her sister, until the clothes are replaced, apologies and hopefully, realisation and remorse.

As for Tik Tok, I wouldn’t think it advisable to let a teen go on it, for all the reasons we know, but certainly because it seems to have egged her on to steal clothes, in order to perform.