Best friend only wants to catch up with me (childfree) at kid-oriented venues

[PlaygroundSusie]

Hi all - I’m childfree, so I hope it’s ok for me to post here. But I’d really appreciate some advice/perspective from parents.

My best friend and I are both 38. Met at uni. She has two children, DS aged 7 and a DD aged 3. She and her kids come as a package deal. She chooses not to socialise without them. This is because (as she’s explained) she wants to cherish every moment while they are still young. She works part-time and her kids are in loads of activities, so family time is vitally important to her.

I respect her decision and understand her kids are her top priority. I am also fond of her children and enjoy seeing them. The problem arises in where we meet. My friend never wants to stop at home. She always wants to catch up at very child-friendly venues. Usually playgrounds, but sometimes places like petting zoos, children's museums, festivals aimed at pre-schoolers, etc.

This means her kids are usually excitable, and easily distracted, and tend to race around a lot. Or they need help navigating the slide, or want to be pushed on the swings, etc. About 80% of my time is usually spent watching or helping my friend parent her children, and only 20% is us actually catching up and having a proper conversation.

On the very rare occasions we meet at her house, it’s much better. The split is more like 50/50. I happily interact with her children for a bit, but then they drift off to their toys, backyard, etc, and my friend and I chat. But unfortunately, my friend and her kids get bored at home, and prefer to get out of the house. Cafes are occasionally an option if it’s raining, or too hot, but otherwise they want the playground or some other place specifically designed for kids.

At the risk of sounding horrible, I’m tired of always catching up at child-oriented venues. I’ve been doing this for years, and there seems to be no end in sight. I’ve reached my limit. We’re catching up this weekend, and I suggested meeting at a café in a park (I figured we could maybe have coffee then go for a walk afterward). Her response was: “DS7 and DD3 would prefer to meet you at the playground. So, the playground it is – LOL!” Again, I appreciate her children come first, but I did find this a bit frustrating. Shouldn’t the grown-ups get to choose the venue?

AIBU? Is there a polite way I could tell her I’m sick of always meeting at child-oriented venues, and that I’d vastly prefer to simply catch-up at her house or a café? Any other suggestions? I feel like such an awful friend for feeling this way!

@PopandFizz

yes and children don’t need to experience joy every minute of every day either. It does kids good to be bored sometimes and see that their mum is a person with her own needs, wants and friends etc and not just their mum.

This is what we do once or twice a year -not as often as pre-little ones and hopefully will see more of each other once we're both out the other side but it does work if you can't/won't leave them. Arrive once the kiddies mealtime carnage is nearly over but early enough to see them & pitch in with bathtime, stories etc. Once they're in bed you can enjoy a whole evening in peace and have a proper catch up. Down side is probably an early morning wake up but it's not too often and you've had your get-together.

Oh and I reflected on this and thought maybe it’s worth asking yourself the question of whether she would accommodate you as much if the roles were reversed? If you had a new puppy, or a child, or were a carer of some description, would she be working something out so she could see you? Because that is key to working out if your friendship is worth fighting for.
In my case, I did go on to have children and I still felt as though the demands were one-sided and there was expectation about what I ‘should’ do, despite the fact I was now the exhausted one with little people - hence the friendship still slowly drifting.

She is being a selfish friend. Just because she is a parent it doesn't mean she gets to constantly dictate the nature of your meet ups. It seems like there is no compromise and that isn't good in any type of relationship, friendship or otherwise.
I find it odd that she hasn't considered whether there are things you'd like to talk about that are inappropriate to discuss in the presence of kids. Maybe you'd like to share a wine etc..
I'd find it so boring to spend time with someone who based their whole identity around being a mother.

I think you need to stop suggesting meet ups and decline any she suggests. She might finally get the message (that her own head is up her own arse). Stop putting yourself through it.

I have a kid and it is boring AS FUCK and is impossible to have a conversation at these godawful places.

@Wednesdaysphiltrum

I have a kid and it is boring AS FUCK and is impossible to have a conversation at these godawful places.

Truer words were never said.

How you feel is fine. However she probably choses places where she thinks the kids will behave well because they are not bored and won't get into things they need help with. This will give her more time to concentrate on you than if they are bored and arguing, or start doing something they need help with. It's fine to suggest other places or even suggest that you do something child free, but it's also fine for her to decline if she thinks she won't be able to get a sitter, or will have to pay you less attention, because she'll need to be more involved with the kids in the places you suggest.

Even when we do have a convo it's all about pooping/sleeping/a problem at school. They never ask how you are or what you've been up to. I struggle to really relate to what they're saying and I really struggle to have long conversations about nappies or baby led weaning because I'm used to adult conversations on a whole different plain about business, or travel, or politics. I can't imagine my days being about placating a child because their ice cream is too cold, it would drive me up the wall.

@moomoomoo27 I’m child free and can’t speak for all parents on this thread but all my friends with kids are definitely not like this. It sounds like unfortunately you had some bad luck with self-centred people. As I’ve said upthread my friends don’t only talk about their kids and definitely do have adult conversations about politics and travel etc. I don’t mind when they talk about their kids school or a new hobby their kids does - the same way they ask about and listen to things going on in my life probably not that relevant to them. but it’s definitely give and take.

I am an educator though and love getting to know my friends kids, so I do genuinely find hearing things about kids especially school aged ones interesting. If that was all they talked about it would be a different matter though.

She's an old friend of yours but the goalposts have kind of changed right now. You obviously don't want to back out of the friendship but I'd be more assertive about meet up destinations and I'd step back with helping with the children while you're out.
I wonder how she'll adapt as her children get older and pull away from her a bit. She may be Mother Earth but she sounds quite boring to be honest.

The 3 year old will be getting free nursery soon. You’ve waited this long. Ask her when child starts and then suggest arranging a few hours out when children at school/nursery. Maybe your friend is a little depressed and doesn’t feel like going to adult places but once kids are taken care of she probably wants to give it a go. If kids go to bed no bother- you could pop round when they in bed in meantime. If they don’t sleep she probably can’t be bothered. Don’t say anything if you want to remain friends- she’ll take it as an attack on her kids. She might well say something though when you have a couple of hours at spa …….

I think that she's a bit of a CF to put her kids over you every time. You cannot expect a child free adult to enjoy meeting up at a children's venue. In fact, most women I know with kids would leave the kids at home and pop out to a cafe or restaurant to have a proper catch up with a friend. I wouldn't be going along with this. How utterly boring she must be.

These meetings sound extremely dull for you. I would just let the friendship drift for a while and not meet up very often.

By the time your friends children grow up and move on she is going to have lost her friendships if she is not careful.

You can’t make this friend change what she is offering you and what she is offering you is quite selfish and all about her and her preferences.

You have accepted this but wish you didn’t have to.

Why not just slowly back off. She is over invested in being a mother, so let her crack on

It is healthy, I think, for families to spend some time away from each other (even just an hour or two occasionally when children are young). Children should get 1:1 time with each parent, parents have occasional time together and/or with other adults. Sometimes that is difficult (very young bf babies, health issues etc) but it helps everyone's resilience and relationships

LaviniasBigBloomers and
Empressaurus of the Scathing Tinsel (page 2) are on the money here.

OP I have the exact reverse. I’m the one with kids. Really good friend pre kids. She only ever wants to meet in coffee shops and without kids. I think she’s met my DD (12) twice- when I was breast feeding- and she’s never met my 10yo DD. I used to arrange childcare to meet her when the kids were pre school. When we moved house (2hours away) she didn’t come to visit once. Now we are about 15 minutes away and I see her about once a year- in a coffee shop without the kids.
it is inevitable that your friendship will drift when one party is completely and repeatedly unreasonable.

I don’t think you are being unreasonable at all. Whilst it’s nice to be part of your friend and her kids lives, she should have some regard to how you feel. My life long best friend had her first child when we were in her 20s (she is now 14). Whilst I have always made an effort to know her kids and spend time with them, my friend has always suggested extra girls night or activities for just us, where we catch up and have fun. Even though our lives are completely different, we have both made an effort to fit in with each other and commit to our friendship. We are still the best of friends and I am very close with her kids. I am now having my own child and my friend has been amazing and so excited for me, as are her kids. I would speak to your friend and suggest that maybe you sometimes meet and do stuff just the two of you- surely she wants that time together too! She may surprise you… it doesn’t have to be 100 per cent kids focused, it should be a balance to suit you both!

honestly feel the true friendships are the ones that can thrive even when you’re at different stages of your life or following different paths.

Agree. My friend and I went separate ways and I am sad about that. But I had other child-free friends that I am still friends with that I first knew before children . I also had a set of good friends that met for the first time as we had children the same age as me and we were very close, but as time went on only the ones that I really had a similar sort of humour/values too that I stayed in touch with. As you go through life, you realise your friendships will ebb and flow.

@BrightYellowDaffodil Dh was self employed and working all hours as he was the only source of income. Plus he had the death of parent and spending any spare time travelling to the bereaved other. Division of labour is annoyingly biological - I had the feeding equipment he didn’t. Looking back it was a pretty intense time and only surpassed by recent events as our teenager has become disabled. It has brought back those feelings of those early days of not being able to ‘be there’ for friends because I am not emotionally able to take on any more mental load. You mention I ‘took’ from her. I didn’t take, I just couldn’t ‘give’ what she wanted and needed. I was running on empty but she could not relate.

We should have talked more openly. When eventually we did she said that I was alright because I was married (!) and had a three bed house and didn’t even work properly and she was renting a one bed flat and working hard to build a high profile career. We had no spare money (all tied in the house) as Dh started the business. I was helping out where I could whilst looking after small children. The house needed a lot of work. To be honest Dh and I were ships passing in the night and both exhausted. She said Dh earned loads compared to her but I gently pointed out she earned far more ‘per head’ and we holidayed for one week a year at the seaside in the U.K. (with Dh still on his laptop). Going to the park was as good as it normally got. She had multiple luxury holidays all round the world and still loved clubbing/drinking loads/meeting men. We just were in such different places mentally and emotionally.

Still feel guilty and would love to catch up but I am worried we were only ever really good friends when we had more in common that we could both chat/console each other about on a relatable level. I could relate to her as I lived a similar life once. She could not relate to me and so our conversations became completely about her. I think about her a lot when we have travelled since - I would love to chat. As far as I know she’s got a fantastic career and lives abroad. We were such good friends once and I wish her well.

Your friend is using you as another pair of hands when she takes her DC out. Her DC get entertained rather than be bored at home, she gets to feel like mum of the year because she's 'putting them first' and you get to make that much easier for her. I don't think anything you can say will change what she agrees to do, as meeting up with you is not the purpose of the outings.

She just sounds like my sister but a bit more reasonable. When I came to visit her few years ago (I live in UK she lives in Poland). She organized wardrobe assembly and us taking the kids to a soft play center... Even though I enjoyed it o felt like it's the worst time she could have picked up (she knew about my visit for months and she was.able.to move.the delivery of the furniture). Then to add more.salt to the wind she ordered.only.anoigh pizza for kids and some leftovers for us adults who were helping out with the assembly.

I was absolutely livid... I was child free at the time (now I am an expecting FTM) I will.never do such a thing to my guests... Your friend seems more reasonable than my sister. Be open about it but be prepared it may not workout...

She’s not a good friend OP, she’s completely self centered! She’s lucky you’ve stuck around this long to be honest. I’m a mum but have no problem catching up with friends without my kids, in fact it’s better - I can actually hold a conversation then!

It almost sounds like she’s got some kind of anxiety or something? I don’t know any mums that wouldn’t ever leave kids of those ages to go to the pub or a meal out / coffee with a friend. It’s bizarre! Small babies yes, but older children? I’ve never met a mum who thinks like this! Doesn’t she want ANY time to herself?! Sounds like she’s possibly lost any sense of who she is without them and now uses them as a bit of a shield? Maybe she really wouldn’t know what to talk about if she was just one on one with you? That’s quite sad but possible!

It sounds like it's got to the point where it's bothering you and when you hang-out it feels more like a drain on your rather than an uplifting experience as it should be when you are meeting friends. I had this experience a couple of years ago, long story short it didn't end well but emotions were running much higher than they were here. Since then, there has been a lot of talk about how if you are childless and wish to remain friends with a person with a child, prepare to do 90% of the work, this would have been useful to know 10 years ago.

You are not unreasonable to want some time with your friend, and you have been more than accommodating to her choices. As other posters said suggest non-child activities in the evening but be prepared to stick to your guns and take a step back rather than giving into guilt. She will need an adjustment period that will be awkward.

Nah - not for me - and I have kids! I relish the time away from the kids. I think you need to be more direct with her.

Her response has been along the lines of: "Sorry [my real name]. But wherever I go, my kids go." Then she's explained to me how she basically doesn't want to leave her children when they're still young, etc.

This is really not healthy. She’s said to you previously that she “wants to cherish every moment” with them while they’re young. She’s taking this to an extreme, binding herself to them so closely that she doesn’t want to leave them with their father for a couple of hours while she goes out with a friend. It would benefit her and her kids if she didn’t cling to them so much. I suspect there’s something else at play - some kind of anxiety, or guilt, or something she’s got in her head about what being a mum should be.

@Tinysoxxx maybe your friend just finds you as insufferable as this post