Best friend only wants to catch up with me (childfree) at kid-oriented venues

[PlaygroundSusie]

Hi all - I’m childfree, so I hope it’s ok for me to post here. But I’d really appreciate some advice/perspective from parents.

My best friend and I are both 38. Met at uni. She has two children, DS aged 7 and a DD aged 3. She and her kids come as a package deal. She chooses not to socialise without them. This is because (as she’s explained) she wants to cherish every moment while they are still young. She works part-time and her kids are in loads of activities, so family time is vitally important to her.

I respect her decision and understand her kids are her top priority. I am also fond of her children and enjoy seeing them. The problem arises in where we meet. My friend never wants to stop at home. She always wants to catch up at very child-friendly venues. Usually playgrounds, but sometimes places like petting zoos, children's museums, festivals aimed at pre-schoolers, etc.

This means her kids are usually excitable, and easily distracted, and tend to race around a lot. Or they need help navigating the slide, or want to be pushed on the swings, etc. About 80% of my time is usually spent watching or helping my friend parent her children, and only 20% is us actually catching up and having a proper conversation.

On the very rare occasions we meet at her house, it’s much better. The split is more like 50/50. I happily interact with her children for a bit, but then they drift off to their toys, backyard, etc, and my friend and I chat. But unfortunately, my friend and her kids get bored at home, and prefer to get out of the house. Cafes are occasionally an option if it’s raining, or too hot, but otherwise they want the playground or some other place specifically designed for kids.

At the risk of sounding horrible, I’m tired of always catching up at child-oriented venues. I’ve been doing this for years, and there seems to be no end in sight. I’ve reached my limit. We’re catching up this weekend, and I suggested meeting at a café in a park (I figured we could maybe have coffee then go for a walk afterward). Her response was: “DS7 and DD3 would prefer to meet you at the playground. So, the playground it is – LOL!” Again, I appreciate her children come first, but I did find this a bit frustrating. Shouldn’t the grown-ups get to choose the venue?

AIBU? Is there a polite way I could tell her I’m sick of always meeting at child-oriented venues, and that I’d vastly prefer to simply catch-up at her house or a café? Any other suggestions? I feel like such an awful friend for feeling this way!

And yes with DH on the spectrum too, there was never anyone except me to look after the children. He couldn't really do it/didn't want to.

Unless my kids are paying the petrol, entry fee etc, then they dont dictate where we go and what we do im afraid.

And yes the mum looks forward to someone else running about after her kids not the catch up with the friend!

When my children were small it was full-on. Dh was working all hours and one child was a bad sleeper. I breastfed for a long time and Dh needed to be alert for his job so the small hour jobs were all mine. There was a lot of new ‘mental load’ and I was worn out with the drudgery and bit overwhelmed with responsibility. However this was counteracted with the joy of the children. It was nice to get out with them as it gave me a bit of headspace.

I had a friend who has not got children. She wanted to talk about her relationship problems, her travels, her lack of money, her work problems. Her sentences all started with I.

Firstly, I didn’t much of any ‘I’ anymore. I was ok with that as I knew it was only going to be for a few years. So all the ‘me’ talk from my friend sounded irritating for lots of reasons. It’s so chaotic during the day having all that ‘mental load’ being responsible for little lives that I didn’t want or have the capacity to listen to anyone moaning about a life that I was envious about. Also my friend would want me to listen to her going on and come up with solutions like we used to do with each other. But I really couldn’t care about whether her latest holiday had been ruined bad weather. I would be listening thinking I would love to be in a bed that had sheets that I didn’t have to launder and no one to wake me up. Being able to just go to the loo without thinking about are 2 other people safe is a luxury. I didn’t care that she had moved desks at work. A career seemed so far away and unfulfilling yet so attractive to have money to spend on yourself without guilt. But I knew she had no concept on that so I listened. Also I was aware that my life was my kids. If I talked about my day it was always about them. And I knew she was bored about it because it sounded boring.

Unfortunately this friend is long longer my friend. I am really sad about it. I came out the other side of the intenseness a couple of years later and got back into work. She never had kids but sent me an email about how I didn’t go and see her once (300 miles away) in her flat and she always had to come and stay with me. In my defence I was breastfeeding, had 2 children in nappies and we had a pullout bed in the living room. She lived in a 1 bed flat. Dh couldn’t get time off work (self employed). How did she think it was going to work? When she came and stayed she complaining that she was woken at 8am (I had been up since 6am and trying to keep small children quiet for 2 hours who were excited to see her).

I wish I could have made my friend realise that it was not her or me - it was that are lives were so different at that point we had so little in common - but it would be better in a few years.

How about suggesting, "Let's go to the playground for an hour, then back to yours for coffee and catch up afterwards."

Although if this woman spends all her time with her kids, what does she actually have to talk about, apart from them?

There is no chance of having a proper conversation at a place like a soft play area or playground (or anywhere full of kids!). There is no way I would subject a childfree friend to that. Can she not meet you for an occasional glass of wine or dinner in the evening?

OP I get it. I hardly ever actually comment, but you kind of remind me of myself a few years ago with my ‘best friend’. She had kids, I didn’t, and for a long time I bent over backwards to fit in with her needs because I felt - at the time - they trumped mine due to her life being more complex/ full on. I felt selfish if I voiced that I wanted to be able to chat to her and have her full attention.
As time has gone on I have come to see that my need to people please - and in particular please this friend who was my oldest and ‘best’ friend - was making me unhappy. I was forever putting her first, and I eventually felt resentful that she never thought about me and how I might feel being surrounded by children all the time. We never had full conversations and she didn’t really know what was going on in my life beyond the superficial level. I couldn’t turn to her or get any support, despite endlessly offering support to her and her children. I felt incredibly sad, but I’ve let the relationship drift - I still remember the good times and she’s still a special person to me, but I’m not willing to only do things on her terms. People change and circumstances change - clinging on isn’t always healthy.
In your case, it boils down to whether she is a good friend to you NOW - not in the past, now. And if the answer is no, it doesn’t mean you have to cut her off but you might have to ask yourself some uncomfortable questions around whether you’re happy to wait until her kids are fully grown to have your needs met in the friendship.
If you still think that she is a great friend to you now, maybe you just have to accept the child-friendly locations for you getting together are part of the deal. You don’t sound happy though - a lovely, loyal friend - but not a happy friend. I hope you can find a way to make it work for you both.

Your friend is being selfish and inflexible, it’s not just the matter of refusing to spend any adult time with you because SHE wants to bring her kids, but she has the same approach to what time she eats, sleeps and how she spends her evenings, she’s telling you loud and clear that you aren’t worth her putting herself out, you have to fit in with everything she wants. She’s not behaving like a friend to you.

Could you suggest going over to hers for a takeaway (or similar) once the kids are in bed? Or see them all for a bit in the evening, help her put them to bed with say a story or something and then you guys can chat downstairs once they’re in bed?

OP I think if you read mine and @familybythesea posts it gives you a very good comparison of how, at this moment, you and your friends needs and priorities are different. No one is right or wrong but it’s just you are both in such a different space at this moment. Doesn’t mean in a few years in can change and your friendship will be stronger again.

I feel like there's often a lot of resentment there too.

I think a lot of people now are having kids based on the cute social media pics they see of other people's and it's just not reality.

And that adds a whole new dimension to it because there is so much to resent: I'm not struggling for money, feeling a lot of worry/guilt about my kids, or thinking that peeing or having a bath on my own is the best gift I can possibly imagine. I don't really know how to handle it because it's just a bit awkward when people are obviously envious...but the only difference is they chose to have kids.

I have some friends who were born to be parents and I'm in awe at how great they are, how patient they are, how great their relationships are with their kids. But the majority are regularly losing their shit in the supermarket, day drinking whenever they get the chance, cancelling plans, and endlessly blaming their other halves/parents/anyone they can think of etc rather than parenthood.

Man, that would drive me crazy. I just find it frustrating when everything is child-centric.

I think with this friend you need to be very explicit and say "I don't want to spend a cold February afternoon in the playground. Can I come to yours instead?" I hate playgrounds and I have two toddlers! 🤣

'I think a lot of people now are having kids based on the cute social media pics they see of other people's and it's just not reality.'

Yes! Couldn't agree more. Lots of people just don't seem to have a clue what actual parenting involves. The kids don't just sit there looking cute and 'playing nicely' i.e. staying out of your hair!

This! The friend's behaviour is telling the OP loudly and clearly that this friendship is not that important to her. I would let it drift, too.

Oh god! She never goes out without kids?! If she is a single parent, then fair enough otherwise there is no excuse! I would suggest to your friend to go at her place for cheese and wine after kids are in bed or ask her next time to go out for dinner once her kids are in bed. I have two kids myself and I strongly believe that it’s good to spend sometime away from them.

I find this odd. She wants to cherish every moment with her children so is inviting on meeting you are places where they will be overexcited, overstimulated and distracted. These places are semi-child care not quality family time. To me that's playing a game or puzzle as a family at the kitchen table or gently supervising play or arts and crafts at home, or going for a nature walk or picnic.

Are you sure it's not more a case of her children wanting to go to these places and her needing a hand to cope with them

I think there's a lot of truth in the pov that those with young kids and those without, are in different places in life and it's hard to reconcile them.
But friendship has to be give and take. And as things stand you are doing all the giving and she's doing all the taking.
True friendship means that you sometimes have to meet at the park, but she also has to sometimes forego her early night and see you when her kids are in bed. Or leave them with her dh and have lunch with you.
You aren't being a massive diva to want to do grown up stuff with your friend.
It is true that often you lose common ground when your lives go on different paths and it's hard for a knackered mum to relate to things she no longer has in her life and for people without (or past this stage) kids to be that interested in her kids' stuff. But friendship means making that effort to care because your friend cares!
She's not doing any of that for you and it's okay to (gently) remind her that you exist too.

@Tinysoxxx Your husband could never ever get time off work? How long was this for? Do you mean just for the first couple of years?

I don’t have kids but majority of my close friends do and they all still made time to see me when their children were under 5, whether it was travelling to the other side of London or in some cases even travelling to another part of the UK.

I had a friend who has not got children. She wanted to talk about her relationship problems, her travels, her lack of money, her work problems. Her sentences all started with I.

Firstly, I didn’t much of any ‘I’ anymore. I was ok with that as I knew it was only going to be for a few years. So all the ‘me’ talk from my friend sounded irritating for lots of reasons. It’s so chaotic during the day having all that ‘mental load’ being responsible for little lives that I didn’t want or have the capacity to listen to anyone moaning about a life that I was envious about.

My friends are all really interesting smart people and they always had more to talk about than their kids and a lot of their sentences began with “I” too. And they seem genuinely interested in my life, my travels, my office drama, career and in fact many of them are more career driven and well-travelled than I am! The majority of them very deliberately chosen their life and were happy about their particular life stage and not envious of me at all. The couple who were jealous or bored of me , well I ended the friendships once I realised.

I wish I could have made my friend realise that it was not her or me - it was that are lives were so different at that point we had so little in common - but it would be better in a few years.

I see this a lot on here but I think the thing is often people without kids don’t really want to hang about for years waiting for certain things from friendship or for their friend to be able to talk about something other than baby clothes. Your friend also probably picked up on the fact you had a lack of interest in her “holiday getting ruined” etc.

I’m really fortunate most of my close friends did not fall into that pattern. Myself and my friends are all low maintenance in the sense we don’t all have to meet and talk regularly, and some live super far /abroad so that might have made it easier, since we didn’t make huge demands on each others time but that’s very much a mutual thing.

When we do meet though , I’ve never felt that I’m boring them etc and we are there for each others big events - baby showers, birthdays, performances (some of us are creatives) etc.

I think when you are both not listening to each other it’s fine for one or both to decide you’ve outgrown each other and to move away from the friendship forever, irrespective of if it will be “better in a few years “ because once you feel very sidelined and unimportant in your life it can leave a bitter taste, so even if the situation changes in the future the feeling remains.

O honestly feel the true friendships are the ones that can thrive even when you’re at different stages of your life or following different paths. If I become uninteresting to a friend with little kids because I am child-free or vice Versa I think it’s best we go out l separate ways.

Of course I expect some things to change eg. Not expecting them to be able to go on last minute girls holiday, Friday night drinks etc or not always responding to my message the same day, etc but the fundamental nature of our friendship in being there for each other remained in tact

I have a friend who had Two toddlers, once my family were abroad for Christmas and I was single, I’m not really bothered about Christmas tbh so I’d have been on my own but they invited me to spend it at theirs and they were so hospitable. Yes we did visit playgrounds etc but most of the time we were in their house cooking, talking, catching up while the kids ran around us.

I’m super grateful for friends who still remember you while juggling young kids.

For those saying "Just step back for a few years, it's just a phase"...not always, it's not.

A group of my old friends all formed a new group when they had children and I thought things would improve after a couple of years. But it didn't because now they have new lives that childfree people don't fit into; they have a social life that revolves around their children and other people with children. As a PP said, I wish I'd spent less time and energy trying to maintain those friendships because it hasn't been worth it.

Maybe in years to come they'll be wanting non-childed friends again but it will be too late.

@Tinysoxxx

*Unfortunately this friend is long longer my friend. I am really sad about it...I wish I could have made my friend realise that it was not her or me."

Reading your post it's clear that it was you. You were envious of her life and you were dismissive of her problems. I should imagine she was sad at the time that her friend treated her like this. Are you really surprised that you're no longer friends?

I get the whole "It's intense for a few years and then we come out of it" but sometimes the amount of "take" in those years is just too much.

@moomoomoo27 youre spot on about the resentment. I wondered if I was seeing something that wasn’t there but you’re right. I’m still in the phase of wondering if the friends I’ve lost will come back and how I’ll handle that if they do. I’m upset at being ditched due to not having young kids and I want to move on, but I also miss my friends and would love to see them again.

I feel exactly the same.

What's wrong with meeting at the cafe after her kids have let off steam? And if you're trying to extract yourself from extra paid of hands role, why on earth did you go with her to the playground and not just leave after you'd had a catch up?

I'm coming from it the other way - I have a good friend who started her family much later than me so she is running around after a toddler whilst mine are flying the next. I can't think of anything worse than meeting her at soft play or petting zoo to catch up but then can't ever imagine her asking! I happily look after her kids on the odd occasion and do all these sort of fun things, but girlie catch up with a takeaway coffee freezing my tits off in a playground - not a bloody chance!

Is everything OK with her husband? The only person I know who literally wouldn't ever leave her kids later discovered he was a nasty piece of work and she didn't trust him alone with their DC 😧

I agree with this but the last time I said it on here I got jumped on.

I have read the thread with a wry smile thinking of how every childfree/less person I know has at least one friend like this, but all the parents posting seem to be astonished by the behaviour.

Can you sleep over at her house? You can all have dinner together and then she can get the kids to bed and you can have a proper catch up with a bottle of wine.

You have made room for her and her kids in your life, but it doesn't sound like she is making room for you. Can you ever talk about yourself, your relationships, sex life, job, family, mental health etc? Sometimes you might want to talk about things that aren't suitable for little ears or that you want to go into more detail about rather than 2 sentences between interruptions, and it doesn't sound like she is acknowledging that at all.

Agree with this. It became palpably obvious that unless I was going to be useful or generous with gifting, I was superfluous to the needs of pretty much all of my friends who had kids during our late 20s and 30s.

The only ones who I remain friends with are the ones who actually made an effort to remember that I am also a human being and not an unpaid babysitter/therapist/parenting advice service/bank.