Aibu to not let him dress like a girl?

[Cccc412]

Lo is 11 and has ASD (not sure if that's relevant). He's told me he is trans, wants me to buy him dresses, make up, hair extensions etc. This is the first time he has come out and said it although he has made comments about girls clothing being better etc over the past year so I had a feeling this was coming. Not sure how to approach this. My worry is if I do allow him to dress like a girl he will get picked on, he already struggles socially and has been bullied in the past. Also if this is just a phase and he changes his mind, people will not forget and he will have to live with that. Also he will be starting secondary school in September which will be a really tough transition for him. With his ASD he tends to become fixated/obsessed with a topic for months but then it's forgotten about and hes onto the next thing so wondering is this just the latest obsession. Just wondering what others would do if their 11 year old told them they where trans or if anyone else has been in this situation? Aibu to not let him dress as a girl?

Id let him dress however he wants, but I'd also remind him he's a boy in a dress - he's not a girl, girls aren't just bodies in dresses!

If he was saying he wanted to be a dog you wouldn't start calling him Rover and taking him for a walk around the park on a lead. I'm all for people wearing what they want, however, facts are facts, he's a boy - no amount of wishing/meds/surgery will change that.

I wouldn't allow extensions for an 11 year old no matter their sex.

It's too cold for dresses. Buy him jeans and t-shirts like what the other girls wear. I wouldn't care about the make-up, but he's too young at 11 for anything other than lip balm.

Could he join a dance class? Or a drama group? An outside activity that isn’t sport.

Take him to a shopping mall to see what girls are actually wearing. Around here it’s baggy jeans and black puffa jackets, not heels and flouncy dresses.

Encourage cooking and sewing, because they are life skills, not girl skills. Could he design a few things for his room, for instance make a cushion cover for a start. That’s not difficult, mine could do that at 11. Let him design a collage and sew on sequins. He might enjoy a creative outlet.

My autistic child decided they wanted to be referred to as they/them for several months, wanted to have blue nail polish, grew hair into a mop, tried a bit of eyeliner. We were fine with it (it mostly happened over the summer holidays). By October they were over it and that was fine as well.
Be supportive and chilled; let them be where they are and love them. Your safe love means the world as they start to explore who they are

I have no personal experience but the DD of a friend of mine who also has ASD declared that she was trans in her early teens. I think it was a similar thing. She was seeing a lot of other girls her age adopting very stereotypical "feminine" behaviours and appearances - long hair, make up, short skirts, dropping out of sport and so on - and she didn't relate to it. So as she didn't feel she belonged with the girls she decided she must be a boy. I suspect that the discomfort that of course many girls feel with their changing bodies around puberty also played a part. She did cut her hair very short and adopt a different name for a while but is now away at University studying engineering and fully accepting that she is a girl, just not a stereotypical one.
My friend certainly found it a difficult line to walk, not wanting to encourage her DD to believe that she was a boy but at the same time not wanting to alienate her. I think the advice she would give is to keep lines of communication with your child open and seek expert help if you are worried. I guess you need to try encourage him to develop his own style and interests whilst stressing that those things don't define you as male or female?

I would get some good advice, there is a high % of autistic kids who seek medical transitioning and/or trans identity and there are questions about this, questions about what is the right support as a parent that we haven't had answered.

Personally, speaking as a parents of kids with SEN I would be quite concerned that at age 11 my DS had such definite wishes and I would wonder where the influence was coming from. Especially as your child hasn't reached secondary school and is only just navigating social life, and probably only just having an awareness of what being a boy and girl are at a very unformed stage in cognitive and emotional development.

I'm not sure, maybe out of school. But no 11 year old child of mine regardless of gender, sex ect. would be allowed make-up and hair extensions. Too young.

Agree with PP’s points that he is too young for hair extensions and make up.

I would have a talk with him about gender stereotypes eg it’s also normal for girls to have short hair and not wear dresses and not wear lots of pink and not wear makeup. And men do cooking - would he be interested in watching something like masterchef? Especially the professionals season - they are mostly men.

I would most certainly explain to him how females’ lives are harder, not easier. Tell him about periods, gender pay gap, not feeling safe to walk alone at night etc.

Ask him where he is getting these ideas from.

Allow nail polish if he would like it, no one will be allowed that at school though.

Maybe take him shopping for a pink tshirt in the boys’ section?

High suicide rates among so-called trans youth is a fabrication by the trans lobby to panic parents into "affirming" their children.

Most people who argue against a person being trans usually fall back on "girls can wear boy's clothes and boys can wear girl's clothes. Isn't it silly that clothing is gendered" etc., yet here many are jumping to say that this child should not be allowed to wear the girl's clothes that they would prefer to wear. Quite an interesting double standard.

@DeeLusional I only have anecdotal evidence but I have worked with approx 10 children over my career who identified as trans, who had made serious attempts on their own lives. The youngest was 7. I don't know if there is a statistical increase but one child trying to kill themselves is one child too many in my book.

Fwiw none were children who were encouraged by families to be trans or were exposed to the level of trans positive stories/media that there is now - this was before tik tok existed.

Fwiw I don't believe in pushing labels on children, rather being neutral and accepting them explore things. There are some lovely accounts on this thread of parents who have done so with their own children where it has worked out really positively.

I would be VERY wary of what he’s consuming online. Wanting hair extensions and make up is performative hyper-femininity at this age. Like a girl-costume. He’s very unlikely to see girls his age with fake hair and a face full of make up - how and where has he decided that this is what “girl” is?

I agree with most posters. Get him off-line, make it clear that people can’t change sex, let him wear whatever he wants at home but with age-appropriate boundaries re make up.

She may also, just be trans. In which case it would be very damaging for her for you to deny her gender affirmation

No. This is misinformed nonsense.

Very, very few children fit the profile of those who maintain they are trans throughout puberty and into adulthood, left to their own devices. And most of them start saying they are the other sec much younger than the OP's DS, and even then, the jury is out as to what is actually going on.

The vast majority of kids who think they are trans are caught up in a social contagion. Most are same sex attracted and autistic or have autistic traits. (According to data from GIDS itself. They didn't record much, but there did at least record this).

You mention danger?

The very real danger here is that the OP's child is actually gay / bisexual but struggling to process it, but instead of supporting him to accept his sexuality and flourish as a same-sex attracted adult, a plethora of well meaning idiots like yourself push the trans narrative on him, and he ends up sterile, in pain, incontinent and unable to ever have a functional sex life as an adult. A eunuch, effectively.

Evidence is emerging that puberty blockers can cause a significant drop in IQ. Young people taking them experience this as "brain fog". They also cause brittle bones, and when started young and followed by cross-sex hormones lead not only to sterility but the suppression of sexual function and desire to the extent that many kids on this pathway never mature into sexually functional adults.

In boys this looks like the genitals staying sexually immature - a child's penis as an adult and no sex drive. And if they go for surgery a "neo vagina" would have to be created out of other bits of the body for example a colon, rather than from the penis itself as in the surgery adult man who have never taken blockers can have.

On a young person who has never sexually matured, such a neo-vagina gives them a hole that can allow them to simulate sex with another person "as if" female but at what cost? If they haven't matured sexually, and their "vagina" is made of colon, it's all about aesthetics over function, they have no hope of a fulfilling sexual relationship. Look up Jazz Jennings if you don't believe me. There's a video of him about 18, asking his grandmother to explain what an orgasm is, as he fad no clue.

Ask yourself, what kind of adult waits to have sex with someone who can never hope to feel sexual pleasure from it? I don't like a lot of the answers to that question. Why would you push a child towards this possible future?

The neo-vagina itself is effectively a wound that wants to close, and is prone to infection, and so it must be dilated, a painful process. Many people who have undergone this procedure struggle with incontinence issues.

Even the prostate is moved so they have no hope of having normal gay sex.

It's a fucking tragedy, what a difficult and lonely life we are setting up so many "trans" DC to have, denying them the chance to ever form a relationship as a fully functional sexual adult.

And it's an outcome that can be easily avoided. All the data shows that if they're not medicated, the vast majority of children grow out of being trans if allowed to go through puberty.

The Cass Report has stayed that social transition is not a neutral act, either, as it puts children on a path to medical transition.

Please, please go educate yourself on what you are actually advocating, it's horrific, a medical scandal unfolding in real time. The practice of stunting the sexual and intellectual growth of mostly autistic and same-sex attracted kids will not be looked on kindly in years to come.

Remember, people used to advocate lobotomy, as people they trusted told them it was a good idea. It was all the rage for a while! This is has parallels. Trendy, no evidence base, those unlucky enough to be duped will end up with serious, irreversible damage at the hands of well meaning professionals

Read some actual evidence based information, not the lobbying of organisations with huge bias.

I would suggest starting with the Cass Report, followed by the excellent "Time To Think" about the collapse of the GIDS clinic, written by Newsnight's Hannah Barnes - available here ttps://amzn.eu/d/a7hPqr4

The OP would do well to steer clear of charities such as Mermaids and Stonewall who will happily give advice, but none of of evidence based, and likely to lead her child further down a path of significant harm.

She's doing the right thing by discussing it here as she's likely to get better advice than if she talks to zealots who are pushing a radical agenda on kids, based on ideology not facts.

Cccc412 my heart goes out to you, this must be so difficult to navigate.

I would recommend two places for support - Bayswater Support is for parents of kids who think they're trans, but won't push the narrative that they must transition on you.
https://www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/

Stella O'Malley is a psychotherapist who does some great work in this area. Look her up or contact her and see if she can put you in touch with a therapist near you who will help your son explore what is actually going on here, rather than push a trans identity on him.

Her organisation Genspect has lots of resources for parents: https://genspect.org/support/support-for-parents-and-relatives/

She co-authored a book that came out last year, "When Kids Say They're Trans: A guide for thoughtful parents" that I think you would find useful.

https://amzn.eu/d/hcw2k7I

Wishing you and your DS all the best.

If it were me I would say ok now you want to be treated like an 11 year old girl ? Ok … no make up and no hair extensions but we can go find a nice unicorn sweatshirt if you like and some joggers .

@Cccc412
"A few of the reasons he gave me for being trans is that he would be better at cooking, he hates football and that boys can't wear pink so I definitely think he is associating these things in strict gender categories."

What an almighty non-sequitur. Nah, not buying this thread.

What the hell is dressing like a girl anyway? Jeans, trackies, hoodies, tees, they all wear the same stuff. Do they want to wear dresses? I honestly couldn't give a tinker's cuss about what anyone wears unless it carries abusive slogans

I think you need to seriously investigate and monitor his internet usage. The whole “girls/women have it so much better/easier” thing is very much associated with toxic male influencers like Andrew Tate as well as “incel” culture. 11 is far far too young to be consuming that kind of media uncritically.

Can only speak from own experience, DS with ASD when he was 15 went through similar. Wanted to be referred to with female pronoun and wear skirts/dresses. For the most part we let him explore it but also took him to GP and spoke to his worker at CAMHS. At the time he was struggling with his social network and GCSEs and all of his friends were expressing they were trans and identifying as opposite sex. For him, he wore skirts intermittently for about 6wks and we didn't pass any comment and it then just stopped. 2yrs later he gets very embarrassed whenever it's mentioned or he sees photos. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on it but access support from health and maybe explore if there are other factors he's struggling with.

Well there's two things here. Firstly you have a boy who wants to dress like a girl.(I assume this means dressesetc, more feminine clothes) I would (within budget) let him crack on, it may be a phase or it may be a life long thing but right now dont over think it. Do make him aware he may be bullied at school but ultimately it is his choice.

Secondly he wants hair extensions and make up. I wouldn't let a 11 year old child wear these things. Maybe some lip gloss and eye shadow or blusher to wear in the house but not as general use.

This is fantastic advice, I think.

This, absolutely this, I wouldn’t let my DD have them to be frank.

The problem with being gender affirming is that it’s not a neutral act. It’s difficult, kids these days feel like they have to have an “identity” instead of just being and I think for ASD kids it’s even more complicated. If they don’t feel like they “fit” their perception of the norms for their sex they may then think “ah yes well that must mean I’m x y or z instead”.

I wouldn’t assume he is dysphoric I would talk about why he thinks he’s a girl and what that means.

Is it because you are worried you will be judged?

Is this part of the problem? Have you ever told him he can’t wear something he wanted to, because it’s ‘girls’ clothes?

DS is autistic and occasionally has wanted a top that was in the girls section (a neon pink sparkly t-Rex was the most memorable). But we’ve always told him that saying certain clothes is off limits because of your sex is silly, you like what you like and it doesn’t make you less of a boy. Same for toys, hobbies and who you want to be friends with.

Apart from one incident with his Nan, who persistently tried to shame him, where I ended up dramatically looking at the label in t-shirt and telling her ‘nope, it definitely doesn’t say vaginas only’, no one else gave a toss.

As he has grown older he has his own sense of style but is still very much a boy (then again, we saw the trans madness coming from a mile off so we were very careful to get the message in early that humans can never change sex, and isn’t it silly to say ‘only girls can like this’ or ‘if you do this then you are a boy’ etc. as autistic children can be easily led by a movement that promises belonging).

If you are giving him unsupervised internet access then that needs to stop immediately, I’d be worried he was being groomed.