She said I am insinuating her 4 year old is a pervert

[Strawberrybubbble]

Hello,

My 4 year old daughter has recently started using words to describe her private areas with words I have never used before.

In particular referring to her chest as boobies (not the most offensive I know but just not a word I or her father have ever used) and more grimly fanny.

I had a conversation with her last night just to find out where she had picked these words up - she said another 4 year old boy at her school (she used his name) kept asking her to show him her boobies and fanny. I told her she should not do this and they were hers and hers only.

Anyway, I told her father who has told his cousin immediately (he does have form for not keeping his mouth shut). Said cousin, is good friends with the 4 year old boys mum so it has now got back to her.

I was going to have a chat with her myself on Monday morning just to tell her what my daughter has said (I'd want to know - he has been saying this to 'all the girls' apparently).

Well, she has hit the roof. Said we are disgusting, we are implying her son is a pervert etc., we are wrong in the head, he is 4 years old.

That's absolutely not what we said - we questioned where they were picking up this language and where he had heard it.

Now, I know you can't take a 4 year olds word for certain every time but it is not anything we have ever said, she is not left to her own devices to watch anything unsupervised where she would have picked this up and is only ever looked after at nursery and by my parents (cannot imagine them using that language for a second). She was very clear in naming this boy.

Not sure where to go from here really. I would of liked to just let this mum know myself but my husband and his cousin have jumped in.

What would you make of this? My daughter is my oldest so not experienced this yet, not sure of a suitable reaction other than reminding her, her private parts are hers and hers only.

This. You show me yours/I'll show you mine is perfectly normal behaviour in 4 year olds. I recall doing the same quite happily with zero sexual connotations at a similar age. You all need to take a breath and calm the fuck down.

Just go in calmly, say you don’t want to make a big issue of it as you know it’s probably just normal curiosity, but thought they ought to be aware of it so that they can perhaps do a bit of work on privacy and boundaries.

So is eating glue or crayons, drawing on the wall and breaking things, it doesn’t mean it’s good or right and shouldn’t be discouraged ASAP

No one’s saying that children shouldn’t be guided on appropriate behaviour but that needs to be done in the context of this being completely normal behaviour for this age group.

The four year old asked the OP’s daughter to show him her “Francesca”. Well she did - her half-wit father waded right in and shot his big mouth off!

And yes, it is WELL ESTABLISHED in the children's developmental literature WORLD WIDE that it is totally normal for children to ask to see each other's genitals. This is healthy, normal curiosity for children. Anything that teaches you otherwise is puritanism. I really don't care what training you've had, I disagree with it as a clinical psychologist

I feel sad for the children that have the influence of such reactive adults that cannot parse out the specifics of a situation and teach them healthy boundaries and support them in contextualizing their normal curiosity

@Lossilania

Thank you for your (measured) and well thought out posts. I am glad for the non inflammatory and sensible comments.

Of course it is normal childhood behaviour. Pretty sure 'playing doctor' (cringe) was a well known term for it.

The adult reactions will be the most potentially damaging to both children in this scenario. Already, by the husband and cousins actions, a path was set in motion which will be impacting both children involved. Of course, we can all kid ourselves that it is only affecting the adults but each child will be soaking it in.
Sex, bodies, feelings are all lifelong conversations. The OPs dd did nothing wrong but over reacting will not reassure her. Again, the incident must be dealt with, of course it should be, but not with the current lens

I've been banned because I said children are being hypersexualised; for fucks sake and no pun intended

This is healthy, normal curiosity for children. Anything that teaches you otherwise is puritanism. I really don't care what training you've had, I disagree with it as a clinical psychologist
I'd be concerned that any health care professional is quick to dismiss potential safeguarding concerns in this way to be honest.

It could be curiosity.
It could be a sign of abuse.

It's the role of safeguarding professionals to make that assessments.

Not every Tom, Dick and Harry with only one part of the situation and their own baggage and opinions.

The NSPCC runs the PANTS campaign to safeguard children and the central principles are that what's in your pants area is private and that if someone asks to see you can talk to a trusted adult.

Correct, you do discourage it and eating crayons, its just part of children growing up. But posters on the thread are on the ceiling about it being a 'safeguarding red flag' and 'inappropriate'.

But posters on the thread are on the ceiling about it being a 'safeguarding red flag' and 'inappropriate'.
Because it can be, which is why it's important to raise it with the safeguarding lead. It doesn't automatically mean a child has been harmed, but it is a possibility.

The basic principle of safeguarding is that abuse can happen anywhere and that concerns should be recorded.

KCSIE also says that child on child harassment can happen between children of any age and any sex, crucially that schools should not dismissing behaviour as just part of growing up. It's expected that there is a culture where it's not acceptable. Children have the right to go to school without peers asking to see their private areas.

As with many things in safeguarding, it could be nothing, it could be something but that's exactly why concerns should be recorded (rather than dismissed) so that those with the fuller picture can make decisions to keep children safe.

Yes it might be and I already said somewhere else on this thread that its right to talk to the school

But we find ourselves now in a landscape where we are using terminology for quite small children like 'harrassment' and 'sexualised behaviour'. I hear it (and challenge it) all the time in meetings, usually coming from schools.

Its not appropriate to use terminology like that about a 4 year old. The behaviour is not abnormal in the sense of children discovering their genitalia and perhaps learning its different for boys and girls, but also could be an indicator for something else, so to immediately start using terms like that is not right

Children also ask to see each others bogeys, or can I cut your hair, or can I wear your coat/shoes, its part of normal curiosity.

Looking forward to you being so sanguine when your daughter comes home and tells you her male classmate wants to look down her knickers.

This is the measured post. It's a welcome change to see some balance on this thread, as opposed either to labelling children or dismissing known safeguarding red flags as 'puritanism'.

It could be curiosity. On the other hand it's a known indicator of sexual abuse. This is precisely why that risk should not be taken and the situation assessed, sensitively and appropriately, by the professionals.

OP's relatives handled it inappropriately. Labelling a child at such an early age is also inappropriate. This is why safeguarding procedures exist, and this is a text-book example of how important it is that the proper channels should be followed.

I'm really not sure how anyone could argue that this is a bad thing.

It really isn't.......

Well yes I can understand why the parents (of both dc) have reacted emotionally with a “knee jerk” reaction, rather than calmly.

No doubt dds dad wants to protect his daughter and probably reacted in anger and fear (immediately telling his cousin- the best friend of this lad’s parents - will obviously get a message out)

A child or parent shouldn’t be demonised in what is a fairly common scenario with young dc.

What pp are pointing out is that posters are inflaming the highly emotive situation by calling this “Disgusting, appalling, “grim” a MASSIVE red flag,, something’s not right with that boy’s family” and so on.

I agree that it’s important to stay rational and let the school lead/advise on this.

Op sounds sensible enough. It’s a good idea to check the NSPCC advice on how to speak to your dd.
Assure her that it’s the right thing to tell her teacher if it happens again because We don’t ask to see what’s in our friend’s pants.
She doesn’t need to be made aware that this is any more of a bigger issue than that.