To say that just because someone is opposed to " Trans Acceptance Without Exception" it doesn't mean that they are GC or Feminist.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

And it's important to understand the difference?

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Radical Feminist POV. Gender is abstract. A societal construct that can be accepted, rejected or adapted throughout life. Gender is different to biological sex which is scientifically binary and immutable so Gender is not really important and not a stable basis for law.

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Feminist POV. Gender might have a biological component. Fine with gender ideology long as biological women's rights, security and single sex spaces are safe with no encroachment from males.

Some oppose Trans Activism because it goes against their religious beliefs. It does not make them GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because they believe in stereotypical gender roles. Men should be men and women should be women. This is not GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because of misogyny. They hate women. They hate men pretending to be women because it debases men. This is not GC or feminist.

Am i being Unreasonable to say that just because someone is opposed to TRA "acceptance without exception", it doesnt mean they are Gender Critical or feminists. And we need to understand the difference.

I think a lot of water has been muddied by Culture Warriors and lot of forced teaming has gone on in this discussion which is detrimental to women and transfolk. For example, Donald Trump is opposed to Trans Rights. It doesn't make him GC or feminist. He's a man who abuses women FFS.

Oh who cares? Busybodies have to busy body. If you don’t want to associate with haters don’t associate with them. But stop begging for acceptance and trying to split hairs. Donald trump and the neo nazis are anti trans because it gets them votes. Stop snd think before you lie down with those dogs or don’t be surprised if people notice you’ve hot fleas.

I know Donald Trump is a dickhead. I also know humans cannot change sex.

These two positions are not mutually exclusive.

All of this double talk, nonsense, navel gazing, and attempts at trying to make one group seem more or less special or pure than another is bullshit.

For fucks sake.

This ISN'T complex, or nuanced. Women are treated like shit around the world because they are women. Not because they identify as women. We can't identify out of it. And men pretending to be women aren't letting go of any of their safer position when they pretend to be women either. They are just fucking women over even more.

They wanted no debate. So here we are. No more debate. Fuck off.

I agree with @TheCheerfulNihilist it doesn't have to be that deep. Men can't be women. It's just obvious and it doesn't matter what else you think about other stuff or what labels you want to subscribe to.

Oh btw the Earth is round.

If I wanted to satirise your op I could say "aibu for saying that believing the Earth is round doesn't make you a Taoist" with four ensuing paragraphs of philosophy.

I agree with the last two posters. It's not that complicated. It is impossible to change and saying otherwise leads to all kind of harm (and profits for the medical establishment). But I can't be bothered finding a narrower box to fit into

Yeah you can't lump my knowledge that you can't change sex with trump. Many people may state a truth, doesn't mean they are similar in other ways ffs.
What are you trying to achieve with this post? It's worded very strangely.

I agree and disagree. I agree believing biological sex is immutable doesn’t make you a radical feminist.

Where I disagree is GC. “Gender-critical beliefs include the belief that sex is biological and immutable, people cannot change their sex and sex is distinct from gender-identity.” This is an extract from Hansard. There is further explanation but this is the basic GC philosophical belief.

Being GC is a shared belief/fact that is held by a wide range of people be it on religious grounds, misogynistic grounds etc.

The problem is that if you simply believe sex is binary and can’t be changed you are labelled transphobic and that is not true. I appreciate it is an uncomfortable place to be when people you vehemently disagree with on everything else but agree sex is binary.

Who is saying that people who opposed TRAs are all feminists or coming at it from GC point of view?

In other news, Trump agrees with you that the earth rotates around the sun. Does that mean you have fleas too?

Brava!

You could come up with a list of categories like this for people who DON'T oppose Trans Rights.
Maybe we all need to accept that it's just complicated.

I agree with the OP, though I'm already exhausted by this type of nitpicking - feminist groups have been bickering for years over who's allowed to call themselves GC, genderists love to create 'religious right' bogeymen, and everybody wants to stress that they aren't transphobic. Nobody is actually a TERF, but I don't mind calling myself one.

OP's second post doesn't make sense.

What was the point you wanted to make, @TooBigForMyBoots ?

This issue has no basis in politics.
It's a statement of reality.
Men can't be women.
Women need their own spaces, services and sports for fairness, dignity and privacy.

Men can dress how they like, it doesn't make them women.

1. Believing 'women' and 'men' are words describing the actual biological categories all humans fall into is not complicated, at all.

2. Believing women should have rights is not the same as opposing trans rights - unless supporting trans rights is opposing women's rights?

3. What rights do trans people not have?

Your use of the dreadful 'transfolk' gives you away OP. As does the casual mention of culture wars and Trump. We see you.

👏👏

Because I'm fed up being lumped with Trump and I'm fed up with feminism being being lumped with him too.

Being GC is a shared belief/fact that is held by a wide rage of people be it on religious grounds, misogynist grounds etc

That is not true. Many religion ascribe gender roles to biological sex. The Taliban for example. They are the opposite of Gender Critical. They believe in gender stereotypes.

I really can't see the use in putting people into boxes and telling them what they believe.

Op is effectively saying:

"These people are [niche political subcategory] so they think [specific thing] about women. Whereas I am [other niche political subcategory] so I think [subtly different specific thing] about women therefore we are not aligned"

Why? Why is this helpful? Genuine question. What purpose does it serve?

Or maybe I've got it the wrong way around and op is actually saying, if you think [specific thing] about women, then this is your niche political subcategory.

I'm not really interested in what niche political subcategory my views on women put me into.

I'm not doing a flowchart quiz in a teen magazine, this is real life

Gender Critical has a specific meaning. It is not a Catch-all for people who know humans can't change sex, just as Taoist is not a Catch-all for people who know the earth is round.

Words are important.

Did anyone mention being opposed to those born male taking part in women's sport, either because of unfair competition or in the case of contact sports, safety?

Ok. And yet it moves

99.9% of the world's population know that you cannot sex. Different cultures and different people have different opinions about what is expected of males and females.

The difference between been GC and believing in gender stereotypes is not suble. They are night and day.

Well - you were the person doing that so...