To say that just because someone is opposed to " Trans Acceptance Without Exception" it doesn't mean that they are GC or Feminist.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

And it's important to understand the difference?

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Radical Feminist POV. Gender is abstract. A societal construct that can be accepted, rejected or adapted throughout life. Gender is different to biological sex which is scientifically binary and immutable so Gender is not really important and not a stable basis for law.

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Feminist POV. Gender might have a biological component. Fine with gender ideology long as biological women's rights, security and single sex spaces are safe with no encroachment from males.

Some oppose Trans Activism because it goes against their religious beliefs. It does not make them GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because they believe in stereotypical gender roles. Men should be men and women should be women. This is not GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because of misogyny. They hate women. They hate men pretending to be women because it debases men. This is not GC or feminist.

Am i being Unreasonable to say that just because someone is opposed to TRA "acceptance without exception", it doesnt mean they are Gender Critical or feminists. And we need to understand the difference.

@TooBigForMyBoots

Terf is another catch-all phrase. It means Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist. The vast majority of people who get called Terfs are not Radical Feminists.

Another acronym is needed, then. That is how I understood it and I don't identify by it.

You can be concerned about the impact on women the TRA movement has and still know that Boris Johnson is a twat.

Boris Johnson led the Tories to a landslide victory in 2019 essentially riding on a single issue, Brexit (and what a success that has turned out), boosted by his incomprehensible appeal across the political spectrum based on nothing but toxic soundbites and superficial 'charisma'.

The Tories won't win on the back of a gender culture war this time, but that doesn't mean them stoking it isn't dangerous, and I'm sure I'm not the only one worried about a BoJo comeback, which he is clearly planning.

Out of interest, how does “gender critical feminism” differ from common-or-garden nth wave feminism?

Therefore the poster who doesn't think penis people should be changing next to little girls is exactly the same as trump.

Also ...

Some people who think women should have sexual specific spaces are apparently transphobic and the same as Trump.

But others who think exactly the same thing are nice people and the opposite of Trump.

How did this wholly confused thinking come about I wonder?

The Tories won't win on the back of a gender culture war this time, but that doesn't mean them stoking it isn't dangerous, and I'm sure I'm not the only one worried about a BoJo comeback, which he is clearly planning.

Women's rights to single sex spaces is NOT a gender culture war.

Yep, just proving the point really - these are RW talking points. You're repeating propaganda.

How the RW media work:
Do you remember all the articles expressing outrage when PM Theresa May put Self ID on the table at a Pink News party?
What about when Tory Government minister Penny Mordaunt stood at the Despatch Box and claimed TWAW and TMAM in regards to a Maternity Bill?
The consternation when PM Johnson refused to say that only women have a cervix?
The incredulity and bafflement when Sunak said women were whatever PM Johnson said?
Criticism when Tory MP Jamie Wallis urged children to trans early?

No?
That's because they didn't. The RW press amplified other parties TRAs while staying strangely quiet about those in the Tory government. In power.

Why?

So your pro women stance is ‘women shut up about your concerns. Stop talking about women’s safety. Stop talking about issues you care about that will impact your children just in case the tories get in’

Thats not pro women. That’s anti women.

Why isn’t the onus on Labour to get their message that women’s spaces should only be for biological women, out there? Because they don’t want to draw too much attention to it. Because the TRAs may Kick up too much fuss. Or because they will then have to clarify and they can’t? Because they will contradict what they said previously?

So they choose to keep it quiet, at risk of it impacting the general election because supporting women is too risky?

Women shouldn’t have to shut up because Labour are to afraid of actually talking about the issue and being crystal clear on their stance?

jeaux90
Trans.

It's now an umbrella for people with dysphoria and men who cross dress AKA transvestites and AGPs

None of these males belong in womens spaces.

It is not a political belief.

Yep, just proving the point really - these are RW talking points. You're repeating propaganda.

@DrBalenciaga

How is that propaganda?

Why isn’t the onus on Labour to get their message that women’s spaces should only be for biological women, out there?

They have.

Put simply, this means that there will always be places where it is reasonable for biological women only to have access. Labour will defend those spaces, providing legal clarity for the providers of single-sex services.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/24/labour-will-lead-on-reform-of-transgender-rights-and-we-wont-take-lectures-from-the-divisive-tories?CMP=share_btn_tw

People who believe in female rights to single sex spaces are not all right wing, just as they are not all Terfs or GC. I am a feminist, I am left wing, I believe in women's rights to safety, security and single sex spaces. There are plenty like me.

Attempts to bastardise language is a RW ploy that force teams feminists with DT and the Tory Party who are both dangerous to women.

You can believe sex is binary, you can believe in single sex spaces and rights in certain circumstances and you can believe in the need for compassion for those who have gender dysphoria, for those who wish not to be pigeonholed on gender and their rights to adopt the persona of the other gender if they desire as long as they don't compromise the safety and dignity of those born the sex they have adopted.

Let's face it, if we are all reasonable about these things then everyone can live in harmony! Last night the place I was at had ladies, gents and 3 gender neutral separate toilets to suit everyone, it's easily done. Hospitals can have male, female and mixed sex/gender neutral areas within wards given capacity. Rape crisis centres can have natal female programmes, natal male programmes and one for those where it's more complicated - no needs to compromise women, but others deserve compassion too

I disagree that we need any acronym. It's reductionist.

Yes and when kier starmer was questioned on this is also added that transwomen are women.

So has he back tracked?

Why didn’t the Labour MP that was on my doorstep have that opinion? Since they came to ask who we would be voting for and why and talk about what they could do. This MP declined to answer.

and as of yet is declining to answer about the unfairness of single parents losing CB when then earn over 50k but 2 parent house holds can being in 99k and still get it. This issue impacts, mainly, women. But they don’t want to answer.

If Labour want to make clear they are pro biological women, they are doing a piss poor job.

Last night the place I was at had ladies, gents and 3 gender neutral separate toilets to suit everyone, it's easily done.

Quite. And this is what many GC types have been advocating for years.

But it is not an acceptable answer for a specific TRA contingent.

Also you still haven’t provided the anti trans posts you claimed were on this thread.

And you didn’t respond to the fact that you wanting women to shut up in case the tories get in, is anti women.

It’s not for women to shut up in case the tories get in. It’s Labours responsibility to tackle the issues. Not quietly slink away and be scared of tackling them.

Stop labelling yourself pro women when you are telling women to shut up.

Yep, just proving the point really - these are RW talking points. You're repeating propaganda.

No they are not. They are the reality of the "trans rights movement". I can evidence it all day long. You are extremely naive.

Exactly this.

People seem to think GC women have protested against a gender neutral space being available. We haven’t. We are the ones that think it should happen.

But it’s not what TRAs want. They want access to women’s spaces.

Yes and when kier starmer was questioned on this is also added that transwomen are women.

The problem is that Labour are not being clear whether it's biological or 'legal' sex they're talking about - when protecting single sex spaces.

God help us all that there is this distinction in the first place, but anyway.

A man can get a GRC on the say so of one doctor, according to Labour's proposals.

So women are right to be wary. They are being extremely slippery here.

And this is what gender critical feminists want.

Unfortunately your reasonable compromise is considered transphobic and othering. Transwomen want access to females only spaces.

What @TheKeatingFive said.

Exactly. They need to be crystal clear.

and people think this is going to swing the general election, why aren’t they being clear?

Yes and when kier starmer was questioned on this is also added that transwomen are women.

So has he back tracked? He has revised his stance on the issue after listening to women's concerns.

This.

Why are the Labour Party hounding women out for liking gender critical tweets? Remind me again?

Why aren’t the Tories hounding out women with GC beliefs? Pardon, what was that?

I’ve never voted conservative. My local candidate is actually pretty decent, but I have never voted for them.

Right wing bigot was that I heard you say? Victim of the daily mail? Pardon?