To say that just because someone is opposed to " Trans Acceptance Without Exception" it doesn't mean that they are GC or Feminist.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

And it's important to understand the difference?

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Radical Feminist POV. Gender is abstract. A societal construct that can be accepted, rejected or adapted throughout life. Gender is different to biological sex which is scientifically binary and immutable so Gender is not really important and not a stable basis for law.

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Feminist POV. Gender might have a biological component. Fine with gender ideology long as biological women's rights, security and single sex spaces are safe with no encroachment from males.

Some oppose Trans Activism because it goes against their religious beliefs. It does not make them GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because they believe in stereotypical gender roles. Men should be men and women should be women. This is not GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because of misogyny. They hate women. They hate men pretending to be women because it debases men. This is not GC or feminist.

Am i being Unreasonable to say that just because someone is opposed to TRA "acceptance without exception", it doesnt mean they are Gender Critical or feminists. And we need to understand the difference.

Yes, this is an interesting observation.

Just for a change, this is a good, factual article in the Guardian, though depressing. I don't think he used a she/her pronoun once.

Thank you Sean Ingle

www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/jan/25/transgender-us-swimmer-lia-thomas-taking-legal-action-to-compete-again

Thanks for that Eresh. That is very interesting and it will be very interesting to see where that gets to. I doubt that Thomas will win. However, it will be interesting to see the aspects that they will rely on to show that Thomas should be allowed to compete. I wonder what further studies and papers will be released in time to be used in evidence.

I'm so sorry that you and others feel forced to NC because you contributed to this thread.

The Tories spin on a sixpence. They will tell whatever lie they deem fit.

Penny Mordaunt was a cheif architect of the TRA movement. She truly believes and there's a high chance she'll be the next leader of the Tory party.

I don't think many of the women here are under any illusions about the trustworthiness of Penny Mordaunt, OP.

Mordaunt made the top 3 in the last Leadership race despite her TWAW beliefs. Had she made the final two, polls showed she'd have beaten Sunsk. She's still a strong contender to be next leader of the Conservatives.

Why?
The Tories no more know what a woman is than any other party. They don't give a shit either way. They'll lie and spin on a sixpence on this issue because they don't care about women.

No one thinks they do "care" about women. Nor do any of the other parties.

They definitely don't. Their record proves it.

A Tory vote is a vote against women.

She went back on it and knows it's not popular.

You have to look at what's being said now with the Tories, not what was previously said / done.

Her changing her mind (even if only on the surface) illustrated she understands it's not a vote winner, so it's not a path she would battle the party over. You can have marginal views where it doesn't count. Once it does? Time to do what will win votes. Tories in a nutshell.

(There's no way she really thinks you can change sex; nobody with half a brain cell actually does; TWAW is a sound bite.)

Exactly this issue.

Pointing out that some Tories have changed views doesn't mean they're acceptable to vote for.

I have nobody to vote for (we usually only get the 4 main parties). It's depressing. (There is talk of an indie, but I've a feeling he'll be a Nigel Farage type. No, ta.)

I haven’t been on the thread for a few days as I have been busy at work.

But what I am getting is the we are being told ‘Tories don’t care about women. I know non of you said you were going to vote for them. But a bit for them is against women, so don’t. They flip flop on this issue (and other issues that directly impact women) aren’t clear anyway.’

But also ‘Labour flip flop on this issue (and other issues that directly impact women) but voting for them isn’t a vote against women. So vote for them.m, anyway. This isn’t classed as about against women cause ‘left’.

and also earlier in the thread ‘if you vote for anyone but Labour the Tories will get in so you can’t do that either’

Whilst, I have no clue who I will vote for (since they all seem to not give a shit about women) I don’t feel ‘you must vote for this one party and all other votes aren’t acceptable’ is neither left leaning thinking or feminism.

Whilst, I have no clue who I will vote for (since they all seem to not give a shit about women) I don’t feel ‘you must vote for this one party and all other votes aren’t acceptable’ is neither left leaning thinking or feminism.

I've been on the end of some serious vote scolding on other threads. Basically, because I won't vote Labour right now (or tactically for LD / Green etc, if they're better-placed to win where I live), it's my fault if the Tories get in and is akin to voting for them. I simply don't believe it's my job to fix that problem. It's for Labour to become a party I can vote for. 🤷‍♀️

With the boundary changes this time though, it's going to be very difficult for Labour to get an overall majority, even with the polls as they are.

As is a vote for Labour.

I shall vote Indie if it's a good candidate or spoil my ballot if they are not.

Excellent post.

As is a vote for Labour.

I shall vote Indie if it's a good candidate or spoil my ballot if they are not.

Yes, that's probably me too.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/jan/25/transgender-us-swimmer-lia-thomas-taking-legal-action-to-compete-again

What has always been a curious lack of symmetry is that Sean Ingle has seemed to not receive any letters from groups of colleagues about his articles in the Guardian. Here he is reporting facts again and has used a liberal smattering of ‘male’ all the way through.

Surely the difference couldn’t be that Sean is not a female journalist that his colleagues don’t write a group letter demanding his articles are no longer published?

Penny Mordaunt really annoyed me by doing a fab job at the coronation and being great on women’s hour soon after.

Damned annoying because I know she’s been passionately self ID TWAW and I know why.

That said, what if the recent cases highlighting the reckless stupidity of self ID have swayed her a bit? Maybe she’s been chatting to Kemi behind the scenes.

Could she be a person of integrity that has changed her mind? I’d need to think a bit more. I should get a decent chance at evaluating my Tory candidate this time- I’m in one of the newly changing areas. Not sure about the labour one. My labour borough councillors don’t fill me with confidence.

If she retains her seat. You mean rather than the sainted Kemi?

Our Penny has form for lying: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/62185058.

Penny Mordaunt really annoyed me by doing a fab job at the coronation and being great on women’s hour soon after.

Carrying a sword at the coronation? Appearing in a radio show? You have a very low bar for politicians. This is what worries me about many of you.

Could she be a person of integrity that has changed her mind?

No I don't think so.

Carrying a sword at the coronation? Appearing in a radio show? You have a very low bar for politicians. This is what worries me about many of you.

This is a sweeping generalisation

Our Labour (66 seats, 55 are Labour) council went out of its way to pass a motion that TWAW and TMAM the other year. No hope here at all (they also struggle with the basics re council provision, so are corkers all round!).

person of integrity 😂Like Kemi Badenoch? Christ...

Carrying a sword at the coronation? Appearing in a radio show? You have a very low bar for politicians. This is what worries me about many of you.

This is not civil debate