To say that just because someone is opposed to " Trans Acceptance Without Exception" it doesn't mean that they are GC or Feminist.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

And it's important to understand the difference?

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Radical Feminist POV. Gender is abstract. A societal construct that can be accepted, rejected or adapted throughout life. Gender is different to biological sex which is scientifically binary and immutable so Gender is not really important and not a stable basis for law.

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Feminist POV. Gender might have a biological component. Fine with gender ideology long as biological women's rights, security and single sex spaces are safe with no encroachment from males.

Some oppose Trans Activism because it goes against their religious beliefs. It does not make them GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because they believe in stereotypical gender roles. Men should be men and women should be women. This is not GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because of misogyny. They hate women. They hate men pretending to be women because it debases men. This is not GC or feminist.

Am i being Unreasonable to say that just because someone is opposed to TRA "acceptance without exception", it doesnt mean they are Gender Critical or feminists. And we need to understand the difference.

The tribal idiots can only think in the way that is 'approved' and have to censor all other views.
It's really pathetic and makes them look stupid.

I think only the far left needs to be told that agreeing on one pretty damn obvious principle doesn’t mean you’re aligned in any way with anything else.

I mean, honestly, mammals are sexually dimorphic. We are mammals. It’s not an opinion or a thought system, it’s a free standing fact that is unconnected to any other beliefs, philosophies or political systems.

The ‘careful who you lie down with’ narrative is coming from only one direction. And it’s not the right or gender critical women.

Why would anyone think that someone who agrees on that fact, is therefore aligned on loads of other things- beyond up, down and gravity that is.

All of this. Which is why it's so disturbing to see women in their hordes engaging in this Daily Mail groupthink.

I think a lot of the anti trans posters on MN are not left wing or even feminist really. They're stuck on this one issue that they see in black and white, whipped up to a frenzy by right wing media.

Who are the anti trans posters?

Can you post an example of it?

Because the vast majority of the time it’s actually pro women. Which is different to Anti-trans. Anti trans posts are usually swiftly removed and posters banned.

Just follow any of the threads about these issues and you will quickly see.

Because the vast majority of the time it’s actually pro women. I don't agree. If they were pro women they wouldn't for example even entertain the idea of voting for the current Tory party which a lot of them are, based on the erroneous notion that the Tories are protecting women's rights when they do the opposite.

I'm pro women, including trans women.* *

Just follow any of the threads about these issues and you will quickly see

Thats hella vague. What exactly are you talking about?

I’m so bored of trans activists trying to make people who can see reality into some kind of political movement that they can argue with. They can call us GC, or terfs, or whatever (they really love acronyms eh). But calling people names doesn’t make people a political movement.

Sex is real, and females are more physically vulnerable than males, which has implications for the way a civilised society operates. These are facts. They aren’t a belief system. When I say that sex is real, and important, I’m not expressing a philosophical belief that others may choose to disagree with, or joining some kind of GC political club, I’m just stating facts.

What really drives trans activists wild is that they’re arguing with reality. They can confuse children and persuade them to take drugs and have genital surgery, but they can’t make that a safe or wise thing to do, and eventually the reality of the situation means that those children will grow up and be furious. They can twist words and change laws to put men into women’s jails and changing rooms and refuges by arguing that those men are ‘vulnerable’ (😂🤦‍♀️) but they cannot prevent the reality of what happens when men enter women’s safe spaces.

Trans activists are arguing with reality, and therefore as a movement, transactivism is doomed. The only question is, how many children will be drugged/sterilised, and how many women will be attacked, before the trans political movement collapses? But there is no possibility of the trans activists permanently changing society in the way that they long for. Because when you argue with reality, you lose.

Dress how you want, sleep with who you want. But you can’t change reality by wishing.

People agree on some things and disagree on others. What's so strange about that? Some find enough in common to agree to team up, others are force-teamed against their wishes. Why should they accept that?

More for my bingo card!

Influenced by the Daily Mail
Thicko women incapable of thinking for themselves
'Frenzy' I suppose is the new 'hysteria'

Again, laughable bullshit.

@sanluca

No, actually it's not. What is far right and how do I tell? The obvious ones I can filter out, but no, I don't go vetting everyone and no, people who I disagree with on one topic I can agree with on another. I find this principle you have that you can only endorse, retweet, read certain newspapers, articles, tweets distasteful. It is designed to scare people into speaking out. It puts the expectation on mainly women to never go into grey areas because someone might disagree with something someone once said. It is designed to shut people up.

No-one is shutting you up or scaring you. The idea is simply to be more critical of what you read and share. It doesn't mean you can only have a certain viewpoint or share particular things - just be more choosy about it.

It is not working. I don't care that someone said something racist but writes an amazing article on climate change, I will agree with their article on climate change when the topic is climate change. I will disagree with them on their viewpoint of racism when the topic is racism.

Odd example to choose. If someone is racist, I'm generally not interested in their viewpoints on anything else as I consider their judgement and intellect to be faulty. (That's just me, though.) There's plenty of great writers/academics out there - find a better one.

Transwomen are not women. They are men.

For clarity - that's what the 'trans' bit means.

All of this.

Transwomen are not women. They are men.

So tired of the tedious fucking gaslighting. If people think the whims and affectations of a group of sexist males are more important than the rights of all female people, knock yourselves out. But own it, FFS.

Well if not wanting someone with a penis to be undressing next to my daughter is "far right " then the left have totally lost.

This bizarre tribalism in thinking is exactly what has allowed TRA demands to flourish.

People seem incapable of expressing their views unless they're pre-approved by their tribe. We all have our own brains and our own consciences. Please use them.

I presume Trump also thinks water is wet. Him believing it doesn't make it wrong or reflect in any way on those who also believe it.

What a load of bollocks.

The left has lost it's mind on this issue. Left leaning women are flabbergasted that it is seen as progressive to remove women's rights to single sex spaces by making 'identity' more important than women's lived reality that our sexed bodies have caused our oppression throughout milenia.

The fact that women's rights is now seen as a 'right wing belief' goes to show how badly women have been betrayed by the left.

This is precisely what the Tories, bolstered by right wing media, would have you think.

Thats hella vague. What exactly are you talking about?

Disingenuous.

I think they're probably talking about the fact that:

• There is an entire board dedicated to feminism and gender issues. The majority of the posts are talking about trans people and how they are an issue.
• Some posts include, "there was a trans person on Jeopardy and I didn't like it'
• A large percentage of posters refuse to use pronouns requested by any trans person.
• Threads are often full of holes because posters are being particularly venomous about trans people.
• Trans people are generally painted on here as predatory, self obsessed, dangerous people. And that's a problem.

This 'sex is real' line is being trotted out as an excuse to be at best disrespectful to trans people, and at worst, (such as now in America and I'm sure over here soon), strip away rights that trans people have long been afforded for political gain.

We are referencing the social media propaganda the far-right has generated around this issue, not the specific actions of an individual.

Of course this sort of thing is not okay.

"I'm pro women, including men"

Fixed it for you

For many of us on FWR, this has nothing to do with "the Tories" and what they think. When I first became aware of this issue, when it started to be a problem for women, "the Tories" were fully onboard with it all.

This is precisely what the Tories, bolstered by right wing media, would have you think.

And this is the precisely the point everyone else is making. You aren't even trying to engage with the issues of people's concerns. All you seem able to do is play tribal war games.

So do you think women should ever have single sex spaces ubiquity or do you think it's a ok for woman to be forced to share those spaces with males who are claiming womanhood?

The 'left' is creating a man's world. It's as plain as the nose on your face and people like you don't give a damn about the women it harms in the process.

If that's what the left stands for then NO THANK YOU. Women (and I mean the cunty ones) are fully human.

Boris Johnson has backed Donald Trump ahead of November’s US presidential election, saying his return to the White House could be “just what the world needs”.

At the risk of throwing a cat amongst the pigeons, ideas do not grow in a vacuum and trans dogma is heavily inspired by Feminism.