Are mumsneters TERFs

[ChedderGorgeous]

I started a thread on the new taskmaster line up here. This greatly angered a taskmaster fb group who screenshot the conversation and agreed all mumsnetters were TERFs. AIBU to suggest this isn't the general perception of others when you have mentioned mumsnet ? Ps. I still haven't heard of John Robins !

@NoMoreFalafelsForYou thanks, I appreciate that people have stated what they find to be an issue but as far as I can see no one has said why.

MN seems to have the same balance of GC people I know IRL.
Most people I know feel the same way I do, that a woman can't have a penis and that women's rights need protecting from TRA.

It may well be (but not in this case, either sex can be a TRA pick me, plenty of men are) but there’s nothing more misogynistic that supporting the idea that males can feel that they’re a woman and therefore be one. You support the idea that you can simply think yourself a woman, and therefore there must be such a thing as a ‘lady brain’. If that’s not blatant misogyny then what is?

🙄

I am not a woman

I have no issue with trans people and would argue for their rights to wear, identify and conduct themselves however they wish. Saying that, I do not think that people can change their sex and I object passionately to: trans women aligning themselves with the female experience which is complex and nuanced and entrenched with having to deal with patriarchal bullshit from the moment we are born AND trans women in women only spaces. Just as I would argue to their right to wear a frock, I would argue for the right for women to have specific places which are safe and free from anyone with a penis. Anyone who argues that women do not need these spaces knows fuck all about the female experience.

Forgot to add, if that makes me a TERF or GC or whatever, then alright.

I see where you are coming from Vampire.

However, many feminists are not actually 'Trans Exclusionary'. Female people of all genders are included in feminism. Even if they reject it because they don't want to admit they are female. Feminism isn't for 'women'. It is for all female people of all ages. Therefore, what feminists campaign for is to collectively improve the lives of all female people in the face of needs arising from oppression and discrimination caused by patriarchal principles and actions.

Male people who declare that they are women are generally part of that.

Every single male person who takes the place that has been set aside to encourage a female to achieve their full potential, be it sport, art, writing, STEM is continuing that cycle of discrimination. And every single male person over about 8 years old who enters a space set aside for the needs (safety, dignity and privacy) of all female people is harming those female people by removing the space they need. Their entry immediately and automatically makes it a mixed sex space.

Because no person can change their sex even if they have surgery and have cross sex hormones.

And this is not transphobic to state. Despite that there will be those on this thread who would like to frame it as such.

But no. Feminists are not 'trans exclusionary'. They are 'male exclusionary'. Just as they always have been.

Such an insightful and well thought out reply as always. You really do get your side across so well in these debates.

Oh no not you

The gang's all here!

This passes me off. 'Mumsnetters' aren't any thing... they are a vast number of women all with different opinions, ideals and ideas.
It's just misogynistinc nonsense to label all mumsnetters terfs. Some people just want to shut down a safe anonymous space where women can exchange ideas freely.
And fwiw I think trans women ARE women.. but I'm not here to shut down women talking about any subject they wish to talk about.
Mumsnet is such a valuable resource to so many women.
And anyone on here knows that you get a variety of opinions. Very rarely do you start a thread and have everyone agreeing with you.

If it isn’t clear, I have no interest in engaging in “a debate” with you- You started this interaction by hurling a misogynistic insult at me, so forgive me for disengaging

Its been a real roller coaster

There’s certainly a much higher incidence of terfs on Mumsnet than among the women I actually meet a) in real life or b) anywhere else on line

How would you know? Do you demand to know the position on gender identity politics of everyone you meet? Because believe it or not, I and many other gender critical feminists do not.

And fwiw I think trans women ARE women

Please could you explain how a man BECOMES a woman?! Please explain the biological transformation?

Maybe tw have the ethereal femininity on the other thread 🤣

Please @Tandora , I could have been the most pleasant, wonderful poster on here but the moment I’d ask you a half reasonable question you’d shut down as always. I wasn’t engaging with you in a debate, you never have one anyway. Was just jumping in on how rudely you replied to another poster and wanted to remind you, you haven’t exactly ever made the best name for yourself on MN. Have a good evening.

I couldn’t figure out what the hell you were on about til meow explained

@sunflowerpinks
I've no interest in debating that with you I doubt you are going to have your mind changed and you aren't going to change mine
I came on this thread to address the question the OP asked

If terf means that you believe that males can become females then i don’t think i know anyone in real life who actually believes it

I wasn’t engaging you in a debate

Glad we are on the same page.

Was just jumping in on how rudely you replied to another poster

Ooh we're onto tone policing now.
Thought that was frowned upon?

This is true.

And it is what all those saying 'TERFs are the minority' forget. Because obviously they exist in a bubble somewhere. Fuck, even science is a TERF! Because no where has anyone proven that any male can become a female or vice versa.

And the polls all show that when the reality is needed to be acknowledged, the majority of the UK don't believe that any male with a penis should be in female single sex spaces. The majority of the UK don't support any male being in female sports categories.

So, yes Rufus, the majority of the UK have the same beliefs that the women who are being called the derogatory slur of 'TERF' believe. But those denying that it is a majority opinion, also seem to be keen on denying other material realities. Namely that no male will ever change sex.

Fuck, even science is a TERF!

Exactly. The only crime TERFs are guilty of is speaking the truth.

(Also that particular poster I “rudely replied” to has a history of trying to hound/bully me off threads, so really I was just expressing my genuine dismay that within minutes of me contributing my thoughts to this thread , she had replied directly to me in a personal way with one of her usual stock repertoire of antics.)