Are mumsneters TERFs

[ChedderGorgeous]

I started a thread on the new taskmaster line up here. This greatly angered a taskmaster fb group who screenshot the conversation and agreed all mumsnetters were TERFs. AIBU to suggest this isn't the general perception of others when you have mentioned mumsnet ? Ps. I still haven't heard of John Robins !

I worked in education for 20 odd years and in all that time I met one child who I believed was born in the wrong body and did trans when they were 16, but that was one in many many 100s of children I taught.All of this that is going in in schools needs to be addressed.It worries me for these children when they are older.
I believe that women should have safe places such as changing rooms and toilets and the term TERF is to make women feel uncomfortable and as though they have done something wrong. Me personally think if you want to call me it am really not that bothered

No being a girl does not mean wearing dresses and makeup and doing 80% of the housework.

Then what does it mean?

Manipulation? You're being asked reasonable questions but you're tying yourself up in knots in avoidance. You can't answer anything simply.

Quite frankly, the patience of other posters shown towards you is astounding. Your posts are giving me a headache (and make no sense).

I think we're going to get to the end of this thread without an answer and that's because there isn't one.

I genuinely hope that you can reflect on this and realise that this (admirable) position is not compatible with telling your daughter that being a girl means conforming to girl roles and expressions (as you previously stated).

Because that's where gender ideology leads you. If being a girl is not about having a female body, then it has to be about doing girl things and behaving in girl ways. And that is what we call sexism and sexism limits girls (and boys).

I really hope you can reflect on that and start to see the harms of the position you have been arguing for. Supporting gender ideology and opposing sexist stereotypes are incompatible positions.

I think we're going to get to the end of this thread without an answer and that's because there isn't one.

This. We're nearly there! Not long now.

How about:

-A woman is someone who is born with a vagina

-A man is someone born with Penis

A Trans Woman is someone who wants to live their life with the identity of a woman but wasn’t born with a vagina so can be called a trans woman .

-A trans man is the equivalent.

Everyone has their separate categories - everyone’s a winner?

Too simplistic? I dunno 🤷🏽‍♀️

What were you including in those terms?

Can you give an example?

and here the personal attacks start.

I’m not refusing to answer anything. I have done my best to answer as many questions as possible; in line with current science and research knowledge. Somethings I don’t have an answer for.

I can’t tell you what the objective “criteria” is for being a girl , as all girls are different.

All I know is that being a girl is not reducible to the clothes I wear, or the things I do, or even having any particular (“working”)
body part. However, all of these things play a part in defining how gender is recognised and expressed in everyday, real world contexts.

I also know that gender identity development is a real thing and an ordinary part of childhood development and that for most children gender identity development is predicted by birth sex, but for a small minority of children this is not the case. I dont know what causes this; I do know these children exist, that their experience is real and valid, that this is not something that can necessarily be “changed” through therapy etc., and that some of these children require specific medical interventions to alleviate their suffering.

with telling your daughter that being a girl means conforming to girl roles and expressions (as you previously stated)

i expressly did not state this, would never state this and have repeatedly stated the opposite.

Annnywayyyys , this discussion is not about me , and I do not need to defend myself. There was a time where I felt like parts of this conversation were constructive. We seem to have unfortunately moved beyond this point.

This is where your argument completely falls apart. Either being a girl means something or it doesn’t, and if it doesn’t then it doesn’t matter and there’s no such thing as feeling like a girl in a boy’s body.

You can’t have it both ways.

Fortunately my 3 year old understands perfectly the difference between a boy and a girl and I don’t need to explain any further than that.

Ok if this isn’t a dress, make up or playing with a doll over trucks, football etc (which dd does a range of) what does it include?

Can you say a couple of things?

Of course being a girl means something. gender is very real and deeply important. I’ve never said otherwise. Please read my posts.

Fortunately my 3 year old understands perfectly the difference between a boy and a girl and I don’t need to explain any further than that

this is interesting. if
you asked your 3 year old what a boy is would he say “it’s someone with a penis”?

But there is an objective criteria for being a girl - juvenile Human female. Anything you try to add onto that is a sexist stereotyp. I'm sorry but it is.

I agree with you that there are children with gender dysphoria. I disagree with you that these children are females with male body parts (or vice versa). You would need a lt of evidence for that and you don't have it. Most of these children grow out of this at puberty. How do you explain this? Were they once girls but becomes boys after puberty?

These children deserve our support and our honesty. Gender ideology lies to them and pulls in a whole load of children who do not have dysphoria. And some of them suffer terribly because of it.

Somethings I don’t have an answer for

The things you don't have an answer for are core to your position.

I think you are motivated from a good place and want to find an explanation for children with dysphoria. You have found it in the wrong place and your inability to answer the most basic questions evidences this.

Can you really not see the total logic fail with saying that the definition of girl is anything that a girl does?

What things could a girl child (by which I mean biologically female) do that would make you see that she's really a boy, above and beyond saying that belief to you?

But again, you can't say what this is. You have been asked repeatedly and you ignore this question.

If they said it was about short hair, particular interests or personality, I'd correct them because that's stereotyping. Not sure if mind knew by 3 to not believe the ridiculous idea that girls and boys are inherently different but thankfully they are now. Tandora you are clearly ignoring a simple question. That's an own goal.

The things you don't have an answer for are core to your position
coyld you elaborate on this please?

Oh you've popped back at the end @meowie - much brave.

Maybe it would be less of an echo chamber if people answered simple questions. Or admitted that they can't because their position is illogical.

Is baying mob the new term for people who expect people to be able to explain the most basic concepts in their position?

Lord, we are not in the Enlightenment age anymore, are we?

The answers aren't simple and the questions shouldn't be either.