Are mumsneters TERFs

[ChedderGorgeous]

I started a thread on the new taskmaster line up here. This greatly angered a taskmaster fb group who screenshot the conversation and agreed all mumsnetters were TERFs. AIBU to suggest this isn't the general perception of others when you have mentioned mumsnet ? Ps. I still haven't heard of John Robins !

Just be clear, say who is lying and what they are lying about

I have already, I'm not doing it again.
Do people just not read full threads anymore?!
I'm starting to think some just skim read posts, especially those who they deem "on the other side."
It'd explain a lot

I suspect that the falsify is that the answer would be that it is all one way from what I can gather.

I don’t believe that the poster you are asking has thought about the topic deeply and they don’t seem to have much knowledge or experience as to why women and girls have their own needs to counter negative sexist discrimination. Either they don’t understand the logic that including any male into an itiative to address the impact of centuries of negative sexist discrimination perpetuates that discrimination cycle. Or they don’t care.

I suspect it could be both. Hence I suspect that the ‘respect’ goes one way - towards those special male people.

Exactly.

We're not 'being kind' enough for @meowie .

Meowie believe that the feeling of males who identify as women is more important than the rights of women in some circumstances, who cares if there are no women only literary prizes any more?

But what Meowie doesn't realise is that the TRAs will hate her just as much as they hate us because it's all or nothing. The fact that she thinks that there are some circumstances in which sex matters means she's as much of a TERF as the rest of us.

Trans people deserve the same respect anyone has in life, to work, live and carry on without being subjected to abuse or harassment. Validation is a whole other matter though, no one is owed that to make them happier. Especially when validating an untruth at the expense of others.

I think that sums it up well.

Everyone deserves respect and should not be harassed for being themselves.

But you cannot expect others to 'validate' you, especially if it's based on scientific untruths and at the expense of others.

In practical terms, i.e during sex, the person will either be having a penis or vagina. Therefore, I don't get the idea that cutting off your boobs and taking testosterone makes you a bloke, or wearing a dress and adding tits makes you a girl. I have a trans (f to m) family member, and I accept them as male but to a lover they wouldn't be. Relationships are hard enough without narrowing the possibility of finding the right person is what I think. It's also a trend right now which makes it seem a lot are just doing it to justify their feelings of inadequacy.

Yeah. You could be right.

When you begin to realise that there are now events on national and international levels where males are winning all three places in a ‘women’s’ competition. Or where on a ‘gender balanced’ board in the Labour Party there was 75% male representation on one board when they were supposedly trying to encourage female participation in politics. It does bring home the negative impacts of ‘being kind’.

The fact that an extreme trans activist convinced committees (where NO female athlete were invited to talk or on the panels) that because people used the words that meow insists we should use that it would be cruel and a human rights issue to not let males compete as female athletes, that activists are using this argument with other issues now too, well, I think that women directly impacted might call people like meow cruel.

Yet, I don’t think it ever sinks in to those who scold and shame others. They are prioritising male people above female people and collectively that is harmful.

I wanted to add my trans family member identifies as a gay man. So a person with a vagina who likes dick. Surely that's just a woman? It does make my head spin. Though I would never dream of saying anything. Some people have expressed a bit of worry and were shouted down as massively transphobic.

Unfortunately one of the worst things about mumsnet is the grotesquely ignorant display of transphobia that overwhelmingly dominates the feminism board, and often seeps into other areas of the chat boards as well.
But not all mumsnetters share these views!! 🙋🏼‍♀️ And there are lots of other great things about mumsnet that have nothing to do with TERFdom

I think we have established which posters are 'ignorant' and which are not and I don't believe it is the posters who post evidence to back up their claims who are ignorant.

This is very much my experience too.

Oh no not you 😩

It's also a trend right now which makes it seem a lot are just doing it to justify their feelings of inadequacy.

It runs a lot deeper than that. There have always been generation trends to stand out in what always seems like a copycat world. The danger with transgenderism is that it takes advantage of those who suffer genuine distress with their feelings and bodies. This is why you’ll find many people (especially young people) who identify as trans are neurodivergent. Puberty is an especially difficult time for someone with autism, it’s a huge change and worse for girls. Add in mental health issues, already feeling alienated socially, and a literal outlook of what it means to be male and female in society, it’s a recipe for disaster when the medical profession decides that it can be fixed with pills and surgery rather than support and therapy directly targeted for autistic people. Obviously not all trans people are autistic, but there is a correlation.

But not all mumsnetters share these views!! 🙋🏼‍♀️ And there are lots of other great things about mumsnet

Agree, it's a big place with a wide range of views and topics, is a bit annoying if people say everyone's transphobic on it.
I can see why people would come to that conclusion if they're only familiar with what they've seen in the way of FWR threads, or screenshots from, but it's a huge place on here with loads of support and interests

@Tandora if you were acquainted with me in real life you'd have no idea what my thoughts are on gender ideology. I am very well aware of the social opprobrium and possible consequences for work/life for any woman who is suspected of not fully agreeing with every aspect of transgender demands.

oh. Really?.... I have been on this thread for pages and pages.

By the way, have you seen that the World Health Organisation has declared that there is only weak evidence that current treatments improve children and adolescents lives when they are being treated with hormones etc and that they have now withdrawn any guidance that they issued about this?

100%

Funny, I think the same every time I see your username. I took an MN break and when I came back your username still popping up in full TRA pick me mode.

a break sounds like a lovely idea: have you considered extending it? ☺️

Also FYI it’s deeply misogynistic to call a woman a “pick me” as an insult.

@Tandora it would be extremely helpful for you to give a short explanation of what you find to be grotesquely ignorant and transphobic on the FWR boards. If I'm accused of ignorance I would always appreciate the opportunity to learn.

Ah right I get how without tone that might have come across wrong. Basically I think we should just have the (with apologies for the unfortunate expression) balls to stand up and say yes, we are trans exclusionary. We don't want to exclude trans people from the world or from the workplace or from the bounds of human kindness and courtesy. But we DO want to exclude them from our feminism and from our single sex spaces. This is a popular view on MN (I have this view too), but not so much elsewhere. Real transphobes just hate trans people, real TWAW people support their claim to womanhood. TERFs have the middle ground, and I think they're right : don't hate trans people at all, treat them kindly and with sympathy. Just don't think they're women.

it would be extremely helpful for you to give a short explanation of what you find to be grotesquely ignorant and transphobic on the FWR boards

😂 Sorry, but you get to a point on these threads where you just have to laugh.
They're so repetitive. Stuck record. shows age
Starts singing in Del Amitri ,- "and the needle returns to the start of the song, and we all sing along...." 😁

You don't seem to have noticed but welcome aboard.

It's a weird experience and one I've struggled with, wondered if I'm just getting older and becoming intolerant somehow. I would always have thought of myself as fairly right on and believe in equality and probably a greater deal of personal freedom than most.

But every equality I've ever believed in, sometimes fought for, hasn't had a material cost to anyone in society, if someone feels that their presentation doesn't match up to how they identify then they should express themselves however they want, I'll happily refer to whoever as whatever they want, it's polite and respectful. I don't have a problem accommodating anything because mostly it doesn't affect me. What I disagree with is giving trans women rights to and access to female only spaces and sports, the recording of crime statistics and the use of sex specific services. I also think being born in the wrong body is a pretty fanciful concept that relies entirely on stereotypes that a cursory glance at those around you tells you are false. I don't believe there is a correct way for a man or woman to be, that sounds backwards as fuck

Are you a woman? If so, why on earth wouldn’t you be a feminist? You don’t want equal rights or opportunities?