Are my kids naughty or normal

[Jingledog]

I have a 2 year and 3.5 year old DS. Went shopping today and the 2 year was in pram wailing until he was given snacks and screeching at top of lungs.

3 year old wanted to do everything tap the card put food in trolley scan items etc when I did some too as he had a meltdown threw himself on the floor screaming and saying mummy I wanted to do it. Same in the next shop then running off after pigeons and not coming back.

Went for lunch ystrday with friend and who has kids same age they sat there nicely next to their parents at the table playing with some little toys and looking at books while mine ran loops around the restaurant cackling at the top of their lungs and wouldn't settle until I resorted to giving them screen time.

I have tried not giving in to them but the tantrums are extreme and long so sometimes give them what they want as my nerves can't take anymore.

Is it the way I've patented or is this normal behaviour?

Its both. Its quite normal for 2 year olds to have tantrums. Your friend's children sound unusually placid - some children are.

But equally, how you react to tantrums will affect the extent to which that behaviour persists.

These are young enough children that if they keep running off/screaming on floor, you pick them up and strap them in with as little fuss as possible. Eg strap into supermarket trolley seat, or into a pushchair etc. Or you use reins/wriststraps so that they physically cannot run off.

In the restaurant you absolutely cannot allow them to run around. Why didn't you strap them into high chairs? Instead you essentially rewarded them with screen time.

If you give in they will run rings around you forever. You are in charge, not them.

Out of interest, are your friend's children girls?

The key is how you respond.

but running around a restaurant is never acceptable

I do think you need to work on discipline and modelling self-control. There are certain behaviours that should not be allowed, ever. Running around a restaurant is definitely one of them.

Sounds like your dc need space to burn off energy rather than sit at a restaurant table or whilst shopping. Maybe meet at a toddler group / younger kids soft play?

They will keep pushing the boundaries. My autistic son with adhd never ran around restaurants and if he had a meltdown coming on we'd go sit somewhere quiet until we could return to what we were doing. Even if it meant leaving my shopping. I found people were better if I was honest. I'm sorry I've got to leave my shopping as my son needs me but I will be back. I never used screen time as a reward but even child is different. You can explain to the older child what's happening and consequences at 3.5 he should understand. The 2 year old will follow the older boy

@VenhamousSnake it would of been quite difficult to strap a nearly 4 year old into a high chair. I agree but I have tried talking to them and they don't listen I don't like to shout as I was shouted at a lot as a child and don't like to lose control it happens sometimes but scaring them is the only thing that seems to have some impact

@GBBexperience yes 2 girls one boy

Don't stop taking them places, as their never learn. And your asking the question now rather than in 7 years so I think that's good parenting. We our always learning

Some children are more ‘spirited’ than others. Meet your friend at a soft play or the park instead in future until your DC can reliably sit down in a restaurant/cafe and behave.

It is never acceptable to allow them to run around a restaurant/cafe and in this case they should have been put in high chairs or you leave the restaurant once you’ve given them a firm warning and they don’t comply. This kind of behaviour irritates the hell out of other diners and is dangerous for waiting staff.

I have never used screen time out in public and if mine misbehave they get 3 warnings. If they use up the 3rd they get taken straight home. Bad behaviour should have consequences.

"I have tried not giving in to them but the tantrums are extreme and long so sometimes give them what they want as my nerves can't take anymore."

I think this might be the crux of the issue. You need to never give In to a tantrum ever, or they learn it works.

@SecondUsername4me we go to soft play and playgroups all the time makes no difference. I can't run them out in a field everyday before we go anywhere. But I agree I have thought the same that they need more of a run out before we do things but not logistically always possible. I know some people say boys will be boys but it's exhausting

The more you give in to tantrums the worse the issues will become.

you need clear and consistent boundaries. They need to know the word no means no.

Disciplining children doesn't have to involve shouting or scaring them. It sounds like you are trying a far too gentle approach. With regard to the shopping, I probably would have done it online rather than drag two young children round a supermarket and expect them not to get bored. Just one of them, yes, but not both. In that instance you were expecting far too much.
If your children can't get through a meal out without tantrums and running around then you need to go back to basics when eating at home and model expected behaviour at the dinner table.

Either way is normal and doesn’t necessarily reflect their future personalities or show good or bad parenting.

I have 4 children and remember them often acting at age 2 and 3 as yours do - and seeing other children that looked so well behaved and wondering how on earth the parents did it! At other times my children were the ones who appeared really well behaved while he passed a child having a tantrum at the supermarket.

i would say definitely use screen time when you’re in restaurant and want to enjoy it. My kids are teenagers now and capable of sitting in a restaurant and having a chat despite having a phone shoved in their face when they were younger to keep them quiet.

i dont think it is as simple as saying ‘you’re the parent- you’re in charge’. Some 2 and 3 year olds are not ready to sit nicely and that’s fine if you use some screen time to manage it. I’m not saying leave them watching cartoons all day- but use the screen-time for the parts of the day you need a break from them!

As my children grew and got a bit more rational then i was able to talk to them about how them should behave and how their behaviour impacts others. They’ve turned out as generally nice people now despite being nightmare toddlers!

This. People are serving hot food, it’s absolutely ridiculous parents allow their children to run around. If any of ours started to try and run around they were whipped straight out.

Yes - this. Follow through with the warnings. They need to be marched out to the car and sat there if they can’t behave in a restaurant.

You need to talk through what you expect from them beforehand so they know what will be happening. Take quiet things for them to do, sticker book etc.

@bakewellbride I hear what you are saying but going home would ruin it for myself too as I don't get out much to see friends. But agree with the premise maybe time to up my game

Scaring them is the only thing that seems to have some impact

Do you mean shouting at them?

But it’s ok to ruin everyone else’s day with your children’s awful behaviour? Seriously, nip the running around in the bud sooner rather than later.

@TheShellBeach yeah

"Boys will be boys" is sexist nonsense.

With tantrums, if you give in you are reinforcing that having a tamtrum gets them what they want.

Yers, it's exhausting, yes, it screws up your plans, yes, some days you will want to jump on a train and escape it all. But the only way is through.

Making sure success is possible makes a difference - no shopping when they are hungry or overtired, plenty of exercise before something more sedentary, having things in your bag to distract or interest them.

But no tolerance for a tantrum, picking them up and walking out as necessary, and always following through will make a world of difference.

i wouldnt ruin the day for everyone and go home because a toddler can’t sit calmly in a restaurant- stick on a cartoon (on mute or with headphones) and enjoy the time. My dad took this heavy approach with discipline and it made me into a anxious person. Its possible to be a bit more relaxed and still raise children that turn out relatively well behaved.

They deffo sound hard work and tbh it sounds like you need to be tougher on them. I've got 3 kids and when they were little screens didn't exist. How do you think we managed? Mine sat at the table behaved as I took a bag of snacks toys colouring etc
If I was your friend there's no way I would arrange to meet up with you again due to the kids behaviour- harsh I'm sorry but this soft approach to parenting doesn't work in the long run