Are my kids naughty or normal

[Jingledog]

I have a 2 year and 3.5 year old DS. Went shopping today and the 2 year was in pram wailing until he was given snacks and screeching at top of lungs.

3 year old wanted to do everything tap the card put food in trolley scan items etc when I did some too as he had a meltdown threw himself on the floor screaming and saying mummy I wanted to do it. Same in the next shop then running off after pigeons and not coming back.

Went for lunch ystrday with friend and who has kids same age they sat there nicely next to their parents at the table playing with some little toys and looking at books while mine ran loops around the restaurant cackling at the top of their lungs and wouldn't settle until I resorted to giving them screen time.

I have tried not giving in to them but the tantrums are extreme and long so sometimes give them what they want as my nerves can't take anymore.

Is it the way I've patented or is this normal behaviour?

I would say they’re not naughty… yet. They are 2 and 3.5 year olds behaving the way that 2 and 3.5 year olds can behave sometimes. But don’t allow that to become a reason/excuse for their behaviour, as if it is continued to be tolerated by you, they will continue tantruming to get their way, and yes then they would be considered naughty by me and I imagine others as well.

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It sounds like they need to hear no a bit more. Practise the ‘look’ and using a firm voice You don’t need to shout. If anything just getting the ‘look’ from my mum was enough to make me behave when I was a kid. You’re just going to have to persevere. Let them have their tantrums. If they’re screaming the place down inside a shop or restaurant then walk them out to the car and keep them out there until they calm down. Perhaps take a look at their diet. Are there any hidden sugars in the foods that they eat?

Well said, Infusedwithchamomileandmint.

I'm afraid that I'm the parent and I don't take the "wrath" as anything to get stressed about nor am I going to tiptoe around trying to avoid it.

This, absolutely.

This is exactly what I was going to ask!

My two DSs aged 5 and 8 sound similar but they are not naughty - just full of energy and everything is a big adventure with boys and they never stay clean either! Its part of them growing up OP and your precious little heart strings are so adorably small!

Luckily my DSs love eating out so are well behaved in restaurants but outdoors I join in with the screams and shouting and the running around, especially because i'm 'a girl' and they already tease that boys are better than girls - the other parents think i'm bonkers but they laugh and tell me they wish they had the energy I have (I'm knackered deep down but I keep going) I get other peoples children trying to join in with us at wacky warehouse because my boys always nominate me to be 'Mrs Wolf' because they just love being chased and tickled and 'eaten'! Ha!

Whats the time Mrs Wolf.. try it out!

My motto is If you cant beat them - join them! wear them out and try not to let them wear you out OP - If only they came with a mute button ey!! Lol they are only going to get louder and more boisterous!! Just to warn you.

You'll drive them to be "naughtier" if they are always hearing "No" and being a bit silly with them will make them focus on you more in a nice, happy way - then you can gently say 'if you sit nicely we can do that again' - they'll listen and be waiting for the next round of belly laughs from mum being silly!!

Maybe next time meet your friend at a wacky warehouse or soft play place so the little ones can run around and investigate and really exercise those voice boxes!!

It is unreasonable to expect a 2 and 3yo to sit longer than a minute OP, they have unlimited enery to burn and they sound like fun little live wires imo OP, just like my own DSs!

Not naughty at all, every child is different so pls dont compare them to other children. Each child is unique and wonderful

Just a quick observation because I hear this kind of thing so often but why are colouring books seen as infinitely more sanctimonious than screens? I remember a waiter giving a flamboyant speech to us when we were dining that it was so impressive our dcs weren’t on screens and that he seldom sees that. It was nice if him and of course I was flattered but I did think to myself surely screens aren’t so different from the colouring guff they provide. It’s all just distraction for the benefit of other diners. Sorry to derail the thread but it’s just one of those things I kind of feel is an “emperors new clothes” issue. No one really seems to question why one is virtuous and the other appalling.

It's not a case of shouting at them but making it clear what the boundaries are in certain situations. So restaurants for example.. If they get up from their seat to run around you'd need to straight away stop them and return them to their seat and say firmly something like 'we must sit still in restaurants' or 'we can't run around in restaurants' and then distract them with a colouring book or something and repeat Every time they get up! And keep repeating! Eventually they will realise they have to stay at table. Now I'll be honest the first few times you may be up and down the whole meal but the next time less and less and kids learn quickly. Gets easier! Best to start this as young as possible so by time they are 5 they don't even think to get up and run about. But we always have a pack of pens and paper or books for restaurants as they do need something to do while waiting.

Do your children draw or colour or practise sitting quietly occupying themselves at home without screens . Play doh jigsaw board games

these things are learned behaviour . You need to sit with them and teach them how to sit quietly for a bit of every day . How to occupy themselves .

it can be done . Then you can go for play time screen time. Even scream time 👍

when they get to nursery or reception they will be expected to have the skill of sorting on the carpet with the teacher listening to the story or days teaching point .

it’s your job to practise that now .
good luck . It can be done . and you can use rewards and rewards can be praise and mummy time .

Probably better to have short-term annoyance for yourself than setting yourself up for years of emotional blackmail. Children are really quick to realise how they can get their own way and once they know which buttons to press, they don't hesitate to use that knowledge. If you curtail the outing a few times, they'll soon start to realise that you are serious and that there are consequences for acting out.

Please persevere! It will be hard at first but I'm sure your friends will recognise that you're trying to set a pattern of good behaviour - and they'll thank you for it.

I was thinking the same thing.

I don’t think it’s relevant whether they are boys or girls. I have a daughter who is almost 5 and extremely hyperactive. We have only just been able to start going out to eat. She would cry and try and run all over the place until recently. I use screen time in restaurants and I’m not bothered that some people disagree. It’s so boring for young kids to be sat at a table observing adult conversation for over an hour.

Your children sound normal from my own experience. It’s unusual for your friends kids to be so placid at young ages.

My parents always remind me how I would sit still in public and not make a peep when u was my daughters age but that was because I was petrified of my father who used to threaten me with a ‘good hiding’ if I even dared to laugh loudly.

I'm a social worker and foster carer. I specialise in teens.

Then I'd hope you would be less prone to being judgmental and melodramatic than your post shows. How can you possibly refer to 'marching them' out of a cafe or say that taking them home amounts to 'bullying' on no evidence whatsoever? So in your world, small children shouting and running around in a dangerous environment is OK (hot food/hot plates - how many more times does it need to be said?). Well, for a social worker and foster carer that's enlightening to know.

And perhaps I could remind you that even social workers get things wrong - quite often, actually - and often very badly wrong. Yes?

Not true at all. Kids have about two decades to learn how to behave in various situations. Part of our jobs as parents is to decide when they're ready for the next step. (You wouldn't coach an 8yo in how to act in a job interview!)

Kids develop at different rates .... if the OP judges that hers aren't ready for restaurant meals yet, then she'd be wise to stay away for another year or two, until she feels they'll understand how and why people stay seated at their tables and are able to do so.

Sometimes you have to keep trying and admit failure, as many people have said they've done with their DCs on this thread. No shame in that. They all get there eventually. You don't see 12 year olds running around the tables shrieking!

Eh??
I think you have replied to me when you meant to reply to @pookie999

My children are special needs, I had to teach them what I expected of them.

From a young age I took them to places such as restaurants. If they didn't sit semi quietly to colour or play with fidget toys then I payed the bill and left weather we had eaten or not
It took time and we still have back slides with my youngest (had a meltdown Saturday in a bakery because they didn't have cake like weather spoons, his adult sister took him out the building) but if your firm with those boundaries it helps them know what behaviour you expect.

Before going places your children normally miss expectations in could you take them somewhere they can run off excess energy?
If a screen (with headphones) is needed to help self regulate then go for it, my 8 year old needs it after demands have been placed on him such as school so he can zone out and regulate his emotions

Ps. Op sure you are doing great as a parent. They are still very little!

Many apologies, Infusedwithchamomileandmint, I'll correct this.

This!! Spot on

I'm a social worker and foster carer. I specialise in teens.

Then I'd hope you would be less prone to being judgmental and melodramatic than your post shows. How can you possibly refer to 'marching them' out of a cafe or say that taking them home amounts to 'bullying' on no evidence whatsoever? So in your world, small children shouting and running around in a dangerous environment is OK (hot food/hot plates - how many more times does it need to be said?). Well, for a social worker and foster carer that's enlightening to know.

And perhaps I could remind you that even social workers get things wrong - quite often, actually - and often very badly wrong. Yes?

Op would indeed be wise to avoid restaurants if she finds its too much for her DC but has already said she wants to go as she will be the one who misses out .

Over indulgent parenting such as the above example bullying my arseis just as harmful as critical strict parenting, this is what happens when people have ACE .
The traumatised adult is overly permissive instead of parenting firmly but fairly.
The fact that there is also zero considerations for others is a massive red flag

Yes, that's really hard, and she has all my sympathy .... it feels like yet another sacrifice at a time when you're already sacrificing so much.

I posted all that to try to remind her that this hard time doesn't go on for ever. What seems impossible now (training DCs to sit quietly) will become possible later - not necessarily through ruthless discipline, but through them growing up a bit as well. People who say "you must crack down hard on this with a rod of iron, or you'll raise hooligans / social misfits / spoilt brats " are not giving the children's developmental abilities enough credit.

People who say "you must crack down hard on this with a rod of iron, or you'll raise hooligans / social misfits / spoilt brats " are not giving the children's developmental abilities enough credit.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. Their brains just can't hack stuff sometimes. As they develop, it gets easier. Time is your friend here.

Yesterday getting my 4 year old out of the bath- even last year she'd throw a tantrum because she'd want to stay in. She'd throw a tantrum most times she didn't get her way. Especially struggling with transitions too. I hated taking her to soft play or the playground because every time we'd leave, she would lose it so much, that I regretted the whole trip. I must be honest, occasionally I didn't take her. I couldn't handle it sometimes.

This rarely happens now. Is it because I was ' super strict EVERY SINGLE time ' and a complete hard arse ? I don't think so. Of course I parented her and I would take her home anyway etc. but you know what I would do a lot when we'd leave softplay ? I would get her an ice cream next door. This was the only way to get her to stop screaming. Sometimes I would buy her a magazine from a shop while she was having a tantrum, to distract her and shut her up. Most of the time, I stayed quite firm, but I definitely did give in sometimes.

She just doesn't pull that crap anymore now- why ? Because she's developed and she can handle her own emotions better. Not because I was a hard arse, every single time. I'm just speaking for my experience with my child.

Every child is different, perhaps the hard arse approach works with other kids. It hasn't with mine.

You will regret giving into their tantrums! As kids get older the tantrums will
continue because they know you give in, but they’ll be over bigger things… my friend has 2 kids and she always gave into them for an easier life…. Now they’re 13 and she’s having a nightmare with them! They’re unruly, have no respect for her or teachers and are always being excluded from school!
you need to put your foot down now and break them of these awful behaviours, otherwise you won’t have friends wanting to socialise with you…. I have only ever seen my friend without her kids because I simply can’t cope with their horrible attitudes.

I think there's a line between being a hard arse and bribing children to shut up with food.
It's role modelling behaviour, firm expectations and crucially allowing your emotionally disregulated child to express themselves but removing them to a less public location to cool off .
My DH was given treats to keep him quiet, he has major issues with food.
It's not emotionally nor physically healthy to do this.
" Eat your feelings"