Are my kids naughty or normal

[Jingledog]

I have a 2 year and 3.5 year old DS. Went shopping today and the 2 year was in pram wailing until he was given snacks and screeching at top of lungs.

3 year old wanted to do everything tap the card put food in trolley scan items etc when I did some too as he had a meltdown threw himself on the floor screaming and saying mummy I wanted to do it. Same in the next shop then running off after pigeons and not coming back.

Went for lunch ystrday with friend and who has kids same age they sat there nicely next to their parents at the table playing with some little toys and looking at books while mine ran loops around the restaurant cackling at the top of their lungs and wouldn't settle until I resorted to giving them screen time.

I have tried not giving in to them but the tantrums are extreme and long so sometimes give them what they want as my nerves can't take anymore.

Is it the way I've patented or is this normal behaviour?

I've never understood it when people say that their child refuses to be strapped into a high chair, a buggy or a car seat.

You don't give them the choice.

Oh you're right in the thick of it OP. Your kids aren't naughty - kids aren't, not in the way that adults are - they're just toddlers ie unrestricted egos who don't understand how the world works and are surrounded by arbitrary rules about what they can and cannot do that they're struggling to make sense of.

Eg from a toddler's point of view, it's absurd and frustrating that he can run around in one place and not another. Eventually he will understand but it will take time and it won't be a smooth process. He'll learn by observing that you yourself are active and noisy in some places and not in others, by being prompted and encouraged to follow your example whether through praise or yes through external aids like toys, tablets etc and by being taken out of environments for a short time at those points where he just isn't able to get it, on that particular day.

It's fine, you're fine, they're fine. It's not easy! But it's okay.

"Boys will be boys" - yes and no

It's not OK to excuse bad behaviour by saying 'boys will be boys' (not saying you are OP just in general) BUT, boys are different to girls, they have more testosterone and I think it increases at around age 3, so they do tend to need more physical activity and so parents should adjust expectations accordingly by e.g. giving them lots of exercise or time outdoors before expecting them to sit quietly and/or not going to places that require sitting quietly until they are more able to do it. I feel you OP I have 2 boys! They are just turned 4 and 18mo. They are sometimes OK in a cafe or restaurant but I tend to meet friends at playgroup, park, NT site, soft play as it is just less stressful and meets their needs for movement and my need to chat to other mums!

Nor me.

Are they allowed to refuse tooth brushing? Bathing? Hair washing? How about if they want to run across the road?

@Jingledog you cannot let your dc run around at a restaurant. It’s not safe and it’s disruptive.
You need to talk to them before you go and lay down your expectations and what the consequences will be if they misbehave.
Remind them again when you arrive.
If they misbehave take them outside and talk to them.
If they misbehave again go home.

@LaughterTitsoff.. It's also part of parenting to make those judgements and decide that after x amount of times literally restraining and breaking their will is too much. Avoid that activity and do something that works for them help to nourish and gently direct rather than crush and subdue.

I was trying to reassure the op that inspite of some of the "perfect" parents on here : actually it's more down to dc personality than any special parenting techniques.

I would say it's normal behaviour given their age. However I just want to reinforce how important it is for you to ensure good behaviour in a restaurant.

I have a burn scar on my wrist from when I was a waitress because some kid was running around the restaurant area and I was carrying hot soup. The kid ran into me and i had to make the decision to tilt my hand towards me to make sure the soup didn't go over their head and burn their face. I was furious with their parents and their reaction was to tell me that I should have been more careful because it was a family pub.

@Finbrek I really appreciate this. Thank you for your support and kind words. I want to be a fair mum with boundaries but to parent with fun and love too. Just muddling my way through striking the right balance and learning what is just age appropriate behaviour along the way

When shopping, rather than 'let' them do things like tap the card, I used to give them jobs, like when in the veg section, 'you choose 5 nice oranges!' And count them as they put them in the trolley and 'Can you find the beans that we usually get?' So you are proactively directing them with helpful activities. I was aware that it could sound like performative parenting, but it was better than a tantrum! I would save cafes until they have been to the park, or had some other tiring activity, and are ready for a sit down and a snack or drink.

But you’re ruining it for everyone else. It’s not their fault your children are out of control.

Sometimes fun has to be stopped.

I do not want to go back to the dark smacking really tough days of parenting, the sort I had to endure in the 1970’s when many kids got a smack.

But you need boundaries and you need to not fall in to the trap of wanting your children to always like you. I find that is an issue. You need to learn to say no.
Carrot and stick approach is good with lots of praise for good behaviour.

DD was well behaved, DS really had the potential to be the very devil himself. When he started kicking off with tantrums at about 2.5 I picked him up and put him in his bedroom and said he wasn’t allowed to come out until he calmed down. Well he shouted and carried on being really angry and when he calmed down he was let out. In the end I had to do it twice, he never had a strop again. All in all those exclusions lasted around 30 minutes each time. Did he not like me at that time? Of course he didn’t.

There was no need to put down others with asd and adhd . What a thinly veiled dig. Also I dont believe you . Is the adhd diagnosis something you pushed for for extra benefits? Also screen time when out and about is the perfect time.

Regarding meeting friends for lunch... at that age we always met up at a soft play, it was infinitely easier for everyone!

@lochmaree thank you for your lovely message and the solidarity ha. Re the testosterone that's interesting. I did read that. They are not always like it but we seem to be in a tricky spot at the moment. Appreciate the insight

No, you said...

She never wanted to sit and eat, a supermarket was a wonderful play ground of things to pull!! So no she wouldn't be strapped in either as that was stopping her fun.

Pulling things in a supermarket is dangerous, except she didn't know that, but you as an adult did.

Therefore parenting should always trump 'personality' for obvious reasons.

It's dangerous and selfish not to keep your kids under control and understanding that does not make one a 'perfect parent'.

That always gets trotted out on these threads and it's ridiculous as we all know there's no such thing.

My DS is always busy! Especially as a toddler / bit older, so DH, also quite a busy person would walk him around to see everything and keep him interested.
Neither of mine were very tantrumy but I think it's luck of the draw - DD was a bit minxy but only threw herself on the ground once - I walked away and that was that. Any grumbles about shoes or socks would end up in me just putting them in the nappy bag and they'd come out if needed
I do find my little boy (now 11) needs jobs to do, so choosing crisps, bread, milk, cheese, eggs etc - keeps him busy and engaged and me some
Help.
I always go through the veg too so they know what is what even if we don't buy them - we find all sorts of
New veggies we rarely or have never seen - kind of makes it fun!
I always get him a little something too for helping out - a Lego blond back and he'll help shop and then put away when we
Get home
Good luck, but they do change - chose your battles and keep sane!

Do you set expectations and boundaries before you go in the cafe? As in "we are going in the cafe, you will need to sit still because of people carrying hot drinks and food, what toy or book would you like to take with you to help you sit still? If you are noisy or running around then we have to leave" (and make sure you are prepared to follow it through if you say this)
As a nanny, I carry a "busy bag" with paper, stickers, crayons, fidget toys etc that comes out in these situations. I also like to "cafe train" the kids I look after!! So we go regularly to a familiar cafe when I know it will be quieter, to get them used to how they are expected to behave when eating out. At three/four years old I will ask them to go choose a table whilst I get the drinks, to give them little bits of responsibility and control. I always try and involve children in a conversation as being sociable is a big part of going to a cafe, rather than expecting them to sit quietly whilst the adults chat.

Let's not blame 'testosterone' here.

I have 3 sons and two of them very much wanted to run around and go crazy at every opportunity.

It was hard work to be consistent in not allowing it but again, that's part of parenting and keeping your children safe.

Get your shopping delivered

Mine were like this.

I did online shopping for about 3 years from when they were about 18 months until they got into school.

We left a few restaurants as they tantrumned.

I didn't give in but they could easily have hour long tantrums no problem.

I met up with friends in parks and outside as much as possible, or at nct groups or for coffee in peoples houses.

They are not well behaved enough to go to restaurants and cafes if they do this, as they could cause an accident/ be gravely injured with hot food around and glass etc. I would have said firmly 'stop and sit down now or we will leave.' Then take them out of there immediately if they don't comply. (your friend will no doubt be fully understanding) Then no screen time at home on return. And maybe some other sanction to show them they need to behave in public. I am sure it's not that easy but being firm and showing them you mean business and will not reward bad behaviour might work.

If i took my grandchildren to the shops at that age, they would likely do the same! They’re not naughty, theyre toddlers!!!

@NannyR we do this yes. It often works with great results but not every time. I wondered if when children go through a leap or development they react differently in different situations perhaps not and me just trying to understand why some days are great and some not so much

@LaughterTitsoff I don't understand your post or your attack.

I was being humorous. Of course pulling things off is dangerous so of course you monitor your dc and make sure they can't do it.

Or you try and strap them into a pushchair or trolly.
I was being lighthearted. If you delve into any of child development you will see that they all develop at different times in different ways.
I'm pragmatic, choose your battles do what's necessary for safety obviously but also work around what your child can do at what time and age.

You absolutely shouldn’t let them run round restaurants. It’s dangerous and it’s unfair to the staff. If you can’t get them to behave in restaurants you shouldn’t be taking them there. Also - how much screen time do they get? That’s not great parenting tbh.