Are my kids naughty or normal

[Jingledog]

I have a 2 year and 3.5 year old DS. Went shopping today and the 2 year was in pram wailing until he was given snacks and screeching at top of lungs.

3 year old wanted to do everything tap the card put food in trolley scan items etc when I did some too as he had a meltdown threw himself on the floor screaming and saying mummy I wanted to do it. Same in the next shop then running off after pigeons and not coming back.

Went for lunch ystrday with friend and who has kids same age they sat there nicely next to their parents at the table playing with some little toys and looking at books while mine ran loops around the restaurant cackling at the top of their lungs and wouldn't settle until I resorted to giving them screen time.

I have tried not giving in to them but the tantrums are extreme and long so sometimes give them what they want as my nerves can't take anymore.

Is it the way I've patented or is this normal behaviour?

You said it. You always give in so they won't stop till you do.

I was trying to reassure the OP that in spite of some of the "perfect" parents on here, actually it's more down to DC's personalities than any special parenting techniques

No. Being consistent and firm is an essential part of parenting. Children need boundaries in order to feel safe and secure.

Normal.

The only way I think to manage it is to anticipate times when you need the kids to behave and before you put them in that situation you give them, as much attention, fun and chance to run off steam as you can... Then you have better chance of getting what you need from them when you say it's time to be quiet / can't give them much attention.

If you are in a shopping/ coffee with friends situation and your kids haven't had a dose of free play/ attention yet, much more likely it will all go wrong.

Also you need to try to work with their inclination to 'be involved' (it's exhausting but worth it). So when mine were that age I gave the eldest a toy trolley and a list (pictures) and we 'shopped together' (the list was a few things I knew would fit in the toy trolley .. also I bigged up older child to help keep 'our' baby happy... Baby getting upset, can you entertain her / find her a snack

Well the obvious answer to your question is that yes, your children are being 'naughty'. I would prefer say that they are misbehaving though personally.

It seems as though it's at least partly your fault as you give in to them, that's the worst thing to do for a child behaving as you've described.

What punishments have you tried?

In the restaurant situation, instead of just giving them the screen I would take them away from the table (outside or to the toilets) and explain that their behaviour is unacceptable and you will be leaving if it continues. Then follow through with that.

You may have to miss out on social interactions, but you'll miss out on a lot more when people refuse to meet you because your kids ruin it.

If you give lots of constructive outlets for the toddler behaviour you can put your foot down when you need to.

Check out nanny aimes on Instagram and TikTok

she has great strategies for dealing with your supermarket scenario

Mine were given the chance to walk in the supermarket at that age but any messing about they went in the trolley. I used to do similar to a PP in that they’d be given tasks to do or we’d sing songs or see how many green things we could spot or whatever. Call it performance parenting if you want but they weren’t throwing themselves on the floor. Of course they weren’t angels, I definitely carried them out the supermarket like a surf board a couple of times.

Same with walking and holding hands. We used to live near a dual carriageway so were ‘hand trained’ early. If they wouldn’t then it was back in the buggy. I did have to wrestle them in a couple of times but they soon realised (even at that age) it was more fun to walk and hold hands than be in the buggy.

Restaurants/cafes we’ve never done screen time. We do colouring, play dobble, do stickers etc but equally at that age it was a quick pitstop not a leisurely lunch. I’d maybe take a box of raisins to keep them busy and from being too hangry before the food came but sitting down was a non-negotiable. It’s safety above all else. Mine were also still in a high chair probably later than others but it meant they couldn’t readily escape!

They sound like brats, sorry.

I'd stop screens entirely and go from there, also have a look at what they're watching. I've seen kids go from absolutely feral to a lot more co operative simply from having screen time either limited massively or stopped entirely and outdoor play increased. The fact your dc calmed when given the instant gratification of a screen would be concerning to me.

Ultimately you'll end up with far more ruined days out if you don't put the consequences in now though.
If my DD repeatedly didn't listen to me telling her not to run round the restaurant we would go home, because if she can't behave in a safe way that doesn't disrupt others, then we can't stay.

Nanny advice is good on setting boundaries before you go in but also make sure there is a tangible reward and be reasonable. You can't suddenly expect them to sit so say if you can sit and not run around for x minuets, we can go blah after or hot choclate or something...

Reward them in small bites and lead them along.

They will get used to the idea that doing good stuff gets rewards.

@Mrgrinch my kids are never short of offers for playdates thank you the behaviour described is one element of their multi faceted fun loving natures so they don't ruin it for my friends who mostly are supportive and understand

@TheShellBeach how old are your children?

while mine ran loops around the restaurant cackling at the top of their lungs and wouldn't settle until I resorted to giving them screen time.
Is it the way I've patented or is this normal behaviour?

So you let them run around in a restaurant, where hot food is presumably being served and the staff have to walk around delivering the meals to the tables? But if any accident happened, you'd probably be the first to shout? Well, I think it's established that it's definitely the way you've parented.

And other people don't want to be disturbed by feral kids running around, they want to enjoy their meal. If you are too exhausted to do anything about it, then tough - this is what having kids is about. All you're doing is letting said kids know that if they kick off, then they get rewarded.

Brilliant parenting. Well done.

@DriftingDora very kind message thank you. Do you have anything constructive to add?

My ds used to do that. At about 3.5, I'd had enough so from then on if he wouldn't sit down, we would leave. Mid meal, mid-play if necessary.

He could sit and chat, eat, play but NOT run round screaming and getting under everyone's feet. It only took about three instances before he worked it out.

But we walked to most places so he got plenty of exercise. I Used reins too because he could be very silly near cars.

Perhaps you're using things like screen time and snacks as a means of keeping them quiet and even at that age, kids are smart and realise 'if I just yell and stamp enough, sooner or later she'll cave!'
So in a way their bad behaviour is being rewarded with what they wanted, when really, tough as it is, bad behaviour needs to meet consequences not reward (if that makes sense).

I would guess that if you had a lot of shouting growing up, you're probably going to want to be the exact opposite of that but consequences don't have to be shouty or abusive, just firm.

So before you go to a restaurant, it's a little chat with them. 'I want you to sit nicely and not run around. If you do that, I'll let you use my phone'. Not wait until they've wound themselves up into madness and then have to give them the phone as a means of stopping the madness.

And then when they're really good, reward, reward...whether that's with a sticker chart or an ice cream or whatever they think is a treat.

But yep I think if you give treats as a means of bringing a tantrum to an end, it's creating a 'cause and effect' which will make your job way, way harder.

It is tough but once you start applying some consistent boundaries, they will start to get it.

My DS wouldn't sit still in a restaurant at that age. Too much energy.

So we simply didn't go to restaurants, or only to ones where there was a play area that they could get up and go and play in at will.

There's no point making your life harder than it needs to be.
I disagree with the "how will they learn if you don't make them do it" comments.

No one is saying "never go to a restaurant again" just "wait until they are a bit older and it's more appropriate for them". My DS is now 19 and I'm pleased to report that he has managed to master going to restaurants, sitting still through the meal and and even making intelligent conversation, despite us not forcing it when he was a pre-schooler.

Agree with this…

My DD is younger (21m) but I agree.

There is stuff she does that I think “oh god does this really matter shall I just give in?”
but then I think “if I don’t set my stall out now I am in for years of this”

So I have had some pretty awful stand offs (one memorably in the checkout queue in Waitrose on Christmas Eve while I was heavily pregnant and both us were too hot 😅😅😅)

I am also careful about what I say…

• I don’t say No unless it’s a no.
• I don’t ask if it’s something that has to happen (right let’s go upstairs, it’s bedtime vs do you want to come upstairs to bed?)

She already knows now if mummy says no… it’s a no.
But she does continue to stress test this… i.e. runs off and does a “daddy pwease open!”

She still has the odd meltdown but is already getting better accepting
”lets do x first THEN we can do Y”
“the X is broken /sleeping we can’t go/ use it today”

OP this is normal. If you are lucky enough to have children who don’t tantrum, you don’t understand. You can’t strap a nearly 4 year old into a high chair. You also can’t just ‘march them out of there’. There’s one of you and two of them. I get it it OP, I’ve had times when both of my children were tantrumming, the judgement from others when you’re doing your best and feel like shit is horrible.

Don’t listen to people saying your kids are ‘ruining everyone’s day’ etc. Children have as much right to occupy public space as anyone else, and other than when they’re being genuinely unsafe (the restaurant is a place you’ve got to set clear rules) they can be noisy and move around. There is so much judgement and zero tolerance for kids being kids, it’s gotten especially bad since covid.

By the way, mine are both well-adjusted, kind children but oh boy could they tantrum as toddlers. Sending you solidarity and keep taking them out. Talk to them in calm moments about what the rules are. Wishing you the best.

I honestly think my eldest literally wasn't capable of sitting in a restaurant for any length of time at that age. It almost felt unfair to expect him to. I delt with it by not taking him until he was older. It wasn't fun for anyone so there didn't seem any point. He's 6 now and can sit through a meal no problem so it doesn't seem to have done any long term harm. Probably not what you want to hear but I do think children sometimes come with limitations and it's easier all round to work with them rather than against

I think @DriftingDora was just answering your original question. You wanted to know if it was your parenting at fault.

Well you can expect those to dry up if you continue to allow them to "ran loops around the restaurant cackling at the top of their lungs".

Your defensive attitude says a lot.

All you're doing is letting said kids know that if they kick off, then they get rewarded.

How was the PP not constructive there? ^^

As for being constructive, the consensus is that you would do well to set some boundaries, stop shouting, and use fewer screens and snacks.