Or are most men just disgusting?

[Falalalalaa]

Works Christmas party last night. Around 20 of us, pretty equal mix of men and women.

The men are field based so live all over the country, we only really see them at events like this. At least half of them, all married or with long term partners or children, were trying it on with a couple of the single girls from the office. They all had hotel rooms and we’re inviting them back, hands everywhere, making disgusting comments, it was just so seedy and sadly predictable.

I know it’s not all men, but still, it’s really fucking depressing. Is it the same at all Christmas parties or do I just work with scumbags?

I think “kid sistering” is quite common actually - if you don’t fit into the “one of the guys” bracket but you measure up in some ways often both male and female people will put you in the “kid sister” bracket. At Nightmare Law Firm I had a friend who good-naturedly told me which drugs not to take (I didn’t take any), offered me some relatively safe ones when I was falling over on a night shift, and refused to reveal the worst details of the office trip to a fetish club - this happened - to protect my innocence. I have friends who will keep a wry eye on me to make sure I’m eating and suchlike. My ex used to tell me he wouldn’t monitor what I ate if I had two meals a day, and he smoked with me if it wasn’t more than once a week (he introduced me to smoking). You have to be quite lucky to have a full group of them as colleagues.

I suspect that statistically, childless unmarried women are the happiest - but only as long as they are in that situation through their own personal lifestyle choice. Nuns live long, happy lives apparently.

I would hope there was a way to tell their wives!

sounds pretty standard in my workplace too (and the last 4!)

Your post took me back 20years, @Falalalalaa Disgusting behaviour then and now. Well done that man who called them out, but I bet it made no difference.

Hopefully the seniors will sort it out properly. They could all be dismissed for sexual harassment or bringing the company name into disrepute as non employees would have witnessed their behaviour. But I suspect they'll get their knuckles rapped, maybe a formal warning, but that'll be about all... Hoping all the women involved are OK.

around 18 years ago, I was that young woman age 24, at the Christmas work night out. It was a really big event, loads of staff and upper management, fancy car hire, open bar. It was THE highest up - Married with kids middle aged - BOSS that was sitting on my left at the seating and tables area, he was sitting with his arm around his office “girlfriend” as i only found out that evening. He was sitting close enough to put his arm low behind her back, and put his hand on my bum and squeezed!! Whilst then giving me the eye, smiling and winking! 🤮

I wasn’t even with or talking to him or anyone at their table. I was minding my own business with my friends at our own table. I had never ever even talked to him in work before either. He proceeded to literally follow me around trying to make passes at me for the rest of the night and wasn’t taking no for an answer. There was three floors in the night club/bars and i went on all of them trying to get away. He even tried coming into the ladies toilets.

He ruined my night, and I had to leave early. He knew I had a fiancé and a young child, and much like his own, he couldn’t care less. He was very good looking so was used to women going with him. Although I never spoke to him in work, I had always seen him in passing with a seemingly professional hello. I couldn’t look at him the same the following Monday. I was too young and scared to speak up because of his position of authority. So I avoided him at work, then eventually got another job.

I worked with loads of men in a make dominated work place before and after, although there were still the cheats or ones who would chat women up while married or had girlfriends, they were thankfully the minority, and the men generally were more respectful and loyal than the men and bosses in the offices I worked in.

Worst ever place I worked was a large firm of solicitors whose partners believed they had a right to any woman who worked there. My friend actually ended up hitting one of them after a junior partner called her a cxxx for no reason. They thought nothing of walking through the streets whilst drunk and throwing up as they walked along without a backward glance. Once at the venue, it was all a bit caligula, groping, snogging staff even taking young staff members to their cars etc. Just beyond gross people with an inflated opinion of their own importance. Needless to say I never went to any work socials and left without notice.

The female manager later told me when she took issue with such behaviour she was pushed over by one of the male staff at the meeting.

Unfortunately I’ve seen a lot of that, I’ve been at work events in the last year where I’d say 50% of the men try and cheat… mainly successful business men.
Imagine if we ‘outed’ them and took away some of their control and power and their poor wives’ found out.
But we all keep quiet… shame really.

Lots of people coming on this thread to defend the poor downtrodden men 😔

I would suggest that certain work places have a culture that makes some men feel they can act this way openly. My soon to be ex's told me many horror stories about men at his work but I was too stupid to realise that he was just as bad!

But no not all men and not all Christmas parties just too bloody many.

They're all MRAs.

Imagine having so little to complain about, yet feeling so entitled and threatened, that you read these sorts of stories and think the injustice is that women are talking about it.

The title of this thread is sexist trash.

I've left a workplace like this earlier in the year, but it wasn't just at social events this stuff happened, it was in the office too. It was absolutely intolerably dreadful if you were a vaguely attractive female, and even worse if like me you look at lot younger than you are. Lots of sleazy old men who thought they were entitled to the women.

Lots of female apologists too so it was virtually impossible to complain effectively because obviously the men thought it was all fine and then the women would leap to their defence and make out you were the problem (your fault for being attractive and provoking the menzzzzz just by existing of course).

The social events were also intolerable - I was badly sexually harassed at two of them (once verbal, once physical). They were overnight events too, there was a lot of men cracking on to the women trying their luck for the night.

The younger men (I'd say up to about age 40) were a lot better to be around, but the ones who had worked there a long time had picked up the outdated attitudes of the now 50s men so it was a never ending cycle.

An FE college I once worked at was like this. I've never experienced anything like it. Some of the staff, not discounting the most senior ones, appeared to spend their working lives panting after each other like dogs on heat. Several had been found (or seen by Security Staff on the CCTV) in uncompromising positions in offices; even, on one occasion, over the pool table. Many of these adults were far too old to have been behaving like this. It's not 'sexy', it's seedy and not a little pathetic. Why not get a room?

The worst of it was that, as far as some senior male staff were concerned, young female students were not off-limits. The farce was complete when I spent most of an evening in the college bar with none other than the Principal hanging about 2" off my right shoulder. To compound the comedic farce, I was over a head taller than him.

The Christmas before I left there was an event in the bar after which I was followed around the perimeters of the campus by a member of the security staff. By that stage things had gone beyond pathetic and were starting to feel fairly threatening.

Even the events detailed above - which sound like something out of Benny Hill style farce or the Carry On films - are mild compared with some of what I witnessed. It's laughable, a bit grim and a lot pathetic, but takes on a sinister edge when some men wouldn't take no for an answer, or when students were involved. It really was like some bizarre, parallel universe that time forgot, or in which employment law had ceased to exist.

I wish I were making all this up.

A lot of men where i used to work were known to have affairs (not sure the wives knew though). I hated working there. I'd be surprised if it went on where I work now

I worked in sales for a while. The Christmas parties were much like you described, men trying to hook up with women, sleazy behaviour etc.

My second workplace in a large corporate bank had some of this behaviour but not on the same scale. I heard of two incidents at ours where a male slept with a taken woman (he was single) and a taken female slept with a single woman (she was bisexual).

The workplace I am in at the moment had none of this. We all went out to an ice hockey match in a large booth. We had food, we had drinks, we were a bit merry and after the match I went home. Some of the younger ones went to a bar afterwards but they are all very good friends and I didnt hear of anything of that nature happening. I also dont think any of the co workers are sleazy in the slightest. Its the most relaxed atmosphere I have seen in a workplace.

It’s the majority of men

women don’t like to admit this or turn a blind eye as this could be her husband, brother, father, good friend

Thankfully being older less men are interested in you

In answer to your question OP, no, not all men are disgusting. Some men try it on and behave in unpleasant ways, similar to some women in fact. I have to say, the only time I saw inappropriate behaviour at a work Christmas do was from a woman, a married colleague who was having an affair with a man 15 yrs younger. She was just relentless and very predatory.

The men I work with are fortunately on the right side of the tracks; they would absolutely not behave like this. No way.

I worked in a male dominated industry, every morning group meeting one dinosaur would play to the gallery with his sexist, racist, homophobic crap. One lone female staff member so I complained to a higher up and I got told Susan doesn't seem bothered, I replied I am cos I'd be disgusted if anyone spoke to my wife in that manner plus I knew full well he wouldn't dare to talk to his own wife like that. We were moving offices so everyone packing up, he said to one of the women, if she was struggling to get her flaps shut(on a box) horrible cunt.

Academia = Total cesspit for this kind of thing. Perfect storm conditions:

• a culture of so-called "collaboration" and "mentorship" which means a lot of blurred boundaries (the few Normal People are strong on succinct e-mail game, the many Creeps suggest you can only access their brilliant streams of insight with late night meetings).

• a lot of international workers and students who feel dependent on the visa, are in a very vulnerable position or from a country with poor employment legislation, and so don't or won't speak up as witnesses.

• A lot of weirdos and weird behaviour which is blamed on unfathomable brilliance it really isn't, Professor X is just an annoying perv and no-one will remember his shitty mundane work when he finally fucks off.

• Generally very poor working conditions (especially right now) so everyone is operating on survival mode and trying to keep their head down rather than speak out.

I agree with pps really - its a mix and there is no tried and tested safe place. There can be microclimates in individual workplaces. And predators (unfortunately) know who to target and how to manipulate them.

Overall, I wonder what will happen now as wfh increases?

Even without weird behaviour, I'd say quite a few people (male and female) just find work socials quite shit and outdated and a waste of time.

Imagine reading the stories on this thread and finding the title the most offensive thing.

A lot of weirdos and weird behaviour which is blamed on unfathomable brilliance it really isn't, Professor X is just an annoying perv and no-one will remember his shitty mundane work when he finally fucks off.

Oh, how I relate to this comment.

In the university I work in, I had to report a male colleague for relentless sexual harrassment. I'd diaried this over some months. In view of the evidence I presented them with, they had no alternative but to ask him to leave.

But I was really made to feel it. When I looked at some of the witness reports, in which a couple of colleagues I'd previously respected had excoriated my character to try to get him off the hook, I was distraught. Thankfully most people from that era have left now, but there's still one remaining to whom I don't offer more than the minimal basic courtesies necessary to be a professional. If this person wants to side with a sex pest then frankly I don't owe them any more of my time. I really liked them before.

Men's interests will almost always be protected, because there's an unspoken consensus out there that men - despite the statistics of the commonality of abuse against women - are not abusive at all. Society is far more comfortable with the idea that it's women who must be lying.

@SerafinasGoose

Total respect for speaking up and taking that cunt down, it matters.

Imagine you've seen this already but if you look up the Smithsonian fieldwork situation, or Antarctica fieldwork, or the Al-Jazeera investigation there's a lot of women who have gone through similar.

The way the system is structured...lots of nepotism and funding considerations and an endless supply of "new people from abroad"...I don't think it's going to get better any time soon unfortunately.

No it isn't. We cannot complain that people behave in unacceptable ways if we see it and do nothing.

I've never experienced anything like this at a Christmas party.

However, I have always been a bit of a lightweight and rarely stay late, and I don't drink a lot due to getting awful hangovers if I do.

I noticed that my work Christmas party has an "after party" until 3am this year. I will not be going and will probably leave the main party by about 10pm. But that seems like a recipe for overconsumption of alcohol (and drugs) and attendant bad behaviour to me.