Or are most men just disgusting?

[Falalalalaa]

Works Christmas party last night. Around 20 of us, pretty equal mix of men and women.

The men are field based so live all over the country, we only really see them at events like this. At least half of them, all married or with long term partners or children, were trying it on with a couple of the single girls from the office. They all had hotel rooms and we’re inviting them back, hands everywhere, making disgusting comments, it was just so seedy and sadly predictable.

I know it’s not all men, but still, it’s really fucking depressing. Is it the same at all Christmas parties or do I just work with scumbags?

Some men at my Son's place got the sack for inappropriate behaviour whilst staying overnight in accommodation paid for by the company. It's no longer tolerated thank goodness!

@IfAIwasfedMN yes, the vast majority of men on dating apps want a free prostitute. So many will lie, future fake, omit, embellish ... I'm still exhausted from my attempts to do Internet dating a decade ago. They just want sex, then they want to move on, and if you have a reaction to that that challenges their rosy view of themselves, then you're dramatic/unhinged/bitter. No matter what lie they told you. The rule is, have no visible reaction to having been played.

I'm amazed dating apps are still used.

I find the title of the thread amusing, and I appreciate the ones calling it out on here...

To turn it around, imagine the fire that would be rained down upon the man who had said the opposite:

"I find most women disgusting for dressing inappropriately at work parties in an attempt to seduce senior members of the company"... or words to that effect.

is that the opposite?

@C1N1C Not exactly the opposite is it?
Who mentioned dressing inappropriately?

And married women regularly groping younger single male colleagues, inviting them back to their hotel rooms and ‘making disgusting comments’ is not exactly widespread behaviour, at Christmas work parties or otherwise.

@Draoicht The men shouldn't wear such tight trousers, surely?

Why? People can chat each other up if it's consensual and there isn't a power dynamic.

Have a word with HR. You don't need to name names, but you ought to give examples of behavior. What you've described isn't a great work-culture look.

Spoken like a man. Do you not see that being a sleaze and a cheater hurts other people, but being into silly TV shows hurts no one ? Therefore they're not comparable.

It’s the men at your particular workplace.

I’ve never seen or been the victim of behaviour like that at any work Christmas party I’ve been to. And if they did, their feet wouldn’t touch the ground on the way to the door.

I don't think "all men are disgusting", or at least that hasn't been my personal experience after 50 years on this planet. I'm not British (I am European though) and have lived in different countries. This said I find English men behaviour towards women quite appalling, very misogynistic, almost passive aggressive but hidden with a mantle of gentlemanly when they're sober . I tend to stay away from them.

What I am sick of is this 'single women are soooo much happier than married women' bullshit. As someone said, this 'study' which probably only polled 1000 of each, is 60 years old.

I am very happily married (over a quarter of a century!) and many other married women I know are very happy too. Conversely, most single women I know are generally miserable and lonely, and struggle financially, working every hour God sends to make ends meet. They are not all on £90K a year, and living in a swanky London apartment, in a high flying professional career, with a dozen friends, and a glorious social life, and taking several holidays abroad every year. Most are on the national minimum wage, they have not got a pot to piss in, they can't afford a daytrip to Rhyl, and as I said, they are very lonely.

And some people say 'men have affairs/men cheat while their little wifey is at home being the dutiful housewife.' Do you think the wives of these men don't have their fun too? As has been said, men AND women have affairs. Some men I know who have had affairs, had then with a married women! Not that many have them with single women.

And shocker! Some married couples don't have affairs at at all, and are happy together for many years. Yeah marriage has its ups and downs, but on the whole it's great to have someone to come home to, someone to cuddle up to at night, someone to laugh with, someone to cry with, someone to care for you when you're ill, someone to go out to dinner with/to the cinema/to the theatre/on a daytrip/on holiday. And you can share life's trials and tribulations and the financial burdens. 2 incomes makes life MUCH easier and more pleasant.

Better than being alone, struggling financially, no-one to share anything with, no-one to help you if you're ill, no-one to go away with on holiday etc, and no-one to talk to at night, and no-one to cuddle on the sofa. Yeah I am sure some people will say 'I have friends!' But the fact is, most people are in relationships, so the amount of people to do anything with is very limited.

People do love to bleat this 'single women are happier than married women' trope. Fact is, it's simply not true. Many single women are lonely (hence so many on online dating sites,) and they struggle financially, and are constantly having to work more hours to make ends meet.

Is that a presumptuous and offensive thing to say about single women??? Maybe. Imagine how fucking annoying it is (as a married woman,) to keep hearing that single women are soooooo much happier, and married women are miserable, downtrodden domestic servants to their ever-cheating sleazy husbands. I'm sick of it. It's not true, and it's something single women tell themselves to make themselves feel better. Some people go on about 'smug marrieds!' SMUG SINGLES are worse!

I have had to have this discussion with my daughters, it’s disgusting to have to prepare young women for this. Her father has spoken to her too. Unfortunately she had an issue with a boyfriend who thought he called the shots. I told her to tell everyone about his behaviour and she did.
He is now ostracised by the majority of the friend group. There are good young men out there who have been brought up properly thank God!

Obviously tons of men are like this but I find "all/most men are disgusting" to be a bit like saying "boys will be boys". The important thing is to stamp out this behaviour so women aren't subjected to it; if you believe it's inherently in the male nature to be a sleazy cheat, then you're admitting defeat.

Plenty of workplaces have a culture where sleazy behaviour is frowned on and sexual harassment is taken seriously. It's about changing the culture on a micro and macro level. Men can be socialised out of entitled, macho, predatory behaviour, just like women can be socialised out of people-pleasing, passive behaviour. None of this is innate to us just because of our gender.

Most men Don't show this side to their wives/mothers/sisters.

I knew a man who was thick enough to verbalise it, I knew him from childhood and as divorced adults we went on a date and amongst other stupid things he revealed a madonna - whore complex, saying that just because he got all giddy over a 22 year old at work didn't mean he didn't want a feminine classy woman at home. Geez. They compartmentalise. They don't tell their partners their depraved thoughts.

I agree with much of what you say re men and their capacity to act in this manner, emboldened by workplace culture. However I find it awful when women feel forced to go back to work. If it's of their own accord then great, but wages shouldn't be so shit in relation to the cost of living that women (or any SAHP) are forced to go back, providing there is already someone in the household working and providing for the family.

I definitely think marriage makes people 'unhappy'..So many people who were fine as a couple get married, have kids and the relationship founders- Even after things like fertility treatment where the couples seem so invested in having children- when they get what they think they want.. bam goes the marriage.

I to think single women are the happiest.

that was a rant and a half. a bit of an odd one if I'm being honest.

And what are you planning on doing about it? Or are you going to be complicit in the bad treatment of women in your workplace?

This doesn't happen where I work. I've worked mostly with men for the majority of my career and its always been a very small minority of people who behave that way.

Perhaps the lady doth protest too much...

Sounds like a bit of a time warp. Wouldn't be tolerated anywhere I've worked recently.

OTOH if the young women concerned handle it and, over handsiness perhaps excluded, are not offended maybe they're just letting their hair down.

There's a book that makes this point: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/More-Sex-Is-Safer-Sex/Steven-E-Landsburg/9781416532224
The 'nice' taken men avoid younger women, particularly those who have had too much to drink. This makes them much more likely to find themselves the target of the lechers.

I agree with this.

Also working in male dominated (in numbers terms) businesses all of my career, starting in the corporate world in the early 90s, and have hardly ever seen that type of behaviour and even then it absolutely did not go unchallenged or without consequence.

I think it's very convenient to use the lazy 'most men/all men' label rather than challenge the culture in your own workplace which obviously employs and tolerates abusive wankers.

Most/all/majority is just defeatist - as if it's not worth challenging.

That was my exact thought.
It is far lonelier to be trapped in a loveless marriage than to be single, surely.