Co-parenting disagreement - the role of a parent?

[Blueotter22]

Im looking for some genuine honest opinions and I’m going to try and keep my personal feelings/emotion out of it because I’m just interested in what the norm is..

Co-parenting situation: 11 year old boy spends 50/50 split with parents, who live close to each other. Will call parent A & B for the sake of trying to be unbiased. A drives, B doesn’t. A does all school drop offs and pick ups/ fits this around their work diary. B works from home and lives with partner and baby (9 months). A lives alone.

A collects child from the street next to B and takes to school at 8am, every morning when child has stayed overnight at B’s. Child is usually on time every morning, child has some difficulty with time management/forgetfulness but has been trying really hard with his morning routine and there has been big improvements at both houses. Child has been poorly and off school, so returns to school having had weekend + 2 days off (broken sleep due to illness/out of routine). Child woke up at B’s and accidentally turned off his alarm, meaning he woke up at 7.55 when due to be collected at 8. B calls A, and B is angry on the phone saying child has slept in so he’s just getting dressed now and won’t have time for breakfast. A says there’s always time for breakfast, he can bring it in the car. B says no, it’s child’s fault for turning off alarm and this is the consequence. A collects child, child is upset in car saying they didn’t realise they turned off the alarm and consequence is no technology for 3 days. B did not send breakfast for child.

A’s view: At 11 years old, child still needs a parent to help in the morning for prompts and to keep on time. At A’s house, child sets alarm and doesn’t sleep through it. A will call in “are you up” etc. A will get ready for work alongside child, ocassionally prompt “have you got your PE kit” etc or sometimes 5 mins left etc. A thinks B is too harsh, and it’s the role of a parent to make sure their child is at school of time having had breakfast and with the right equipment. A thinks B should set their alarm and get out of bed to make sure child is up.

B’s view: How will child ever turn into a responsible adult if they can’t get themselves up and ready in the morning? B expects child to get himself up, dressed, breakfast on his own while B & partner sleep. Child is responsible for leaving the house on time without B or partner awake. This is building life skills so he is a functional adult. B thinks A is too soft and is damaging child by reminding him and not letting him experience the consequences. Eg; no time for breakfast, you don’t eat.

Who is BU?

For poll: you ARE = Parent A unreasonable
are NOT = Parent B unreasonable

Thoughts/ views/ opinions/ advice - all welcome.

thank you

@itsallnewnow it's A who is doing all of the grunt work, B doesn't do any drop offs or pick ups. I agree this isn't 50:50 but it is B who is the less active parent

Not having breakfast is the consequence of oversleeping. No tech for 3 days is over the top. 11yo can take a bus themselves, I wouldn't walk 40min to school. 11yo should be getting up themselves but of course if parent is home they should look after the child. Even adults livign together take responsibility of each other. If you want to drive them then go for it. But there is nothing wrong with bus/cycling.

I would suggest a bicycle.

My son's school is a 45 min walk away and he cycles - has done since he started in year 7. It takes him about 12 minutes. He has reflective strips for his clothes and helmet and a reflective cover for his backpack. Obviously good lights on his bike too.

...oh, and a supply of cereal bars!

i’ll Never understand B’s perspective on this as it seems so harsh for something that many of us have done.

our DD is 16 and we take it in turns to drive her to the school bus, too far to walk, whoever is taking her also makes sure she’s up as they head downstairs and makes sure she’s got a breakfast. I’m all for independence but also for being kind to the people we are supposed to love the most.

So would I but I doubt, from what op says, this is a common occurrence and nobody is perfect, including parents. As long as the boy is generally looked after, I'd let this one go; she said he has been making an effort to be more organised and on time. I think the restrictions imposed on him were a bit harsh considering he accidentally turned off his alarm.

I hope you don't mind if I add some perspective from my own experience OP.
when I was growing up my mum was a very lazy woman, she never worked (it was the 70s though so not that unusual). My dad left for work very early, before it was time for me to get up for school.
From the age of 5, starting school, I was expected to get myself up and dressed, breakfasted and out to school on my own. It was only a 200 meter walk which is probably why she thought it was acceptable. My mum never got put of bed to send me off to school once I knew what to do.
My children are grown now but I never did that to them, we started the day together, I walked them to the school bus until they were 11 and waved them off at the front door after that.
Your ex is mean, punishing your son for being late, especially as he hadn't been well.

This. DS loves his dad but the time he has with him sound consistently stressful and lonely. No parent should make their child feel that way.

This thread is making me so angry. Your scumbag ex should hang his head in shame.

I'm with parent A on this one. As the mother of a child who used to be exactly like this, I can completely relate to this story, and I would never have punished her for this as she genuinely couldn't help it. I saw it as my job, as a parent, to ensure she was where she needed to be at the right time, with the right equipment, even if that meant having to give constant prompts and reminders. Some kids have more difficulty than others with organisation and time management. My dd was diagnosed with dyslexia some years later and this is apparently a common trait.
For the record, she is now fully grown, with a University degree, a full time job and living on her own, so is most certainly a functioning adult! Your ds is only 11; I think parent B needs to cut him some slack.

@Blueotter22

Agree with this.

you are a lovely mum and it’s a tricky position.

thunk small changes like getting him to walk to yours on days you take him are a good idea.

also means you can have some cereal bars in the car for him if he’s not eaten.

maybe as the summer term starts you could consider him walking himself to school from his dad’s

it does sounds like your son is idealising his dad and doing that trauma bond thing of overlooking his dad’s neglect.

think being neutral and reflecting that back when it happens is the way to go.

hes young and it’s natural he looks to his dad

Sounds like his dad is a bad male role model though. Can you bring other male figures that are better men into his life?

also to watch out for your son not taking on his dad's ‘women are there to serve me’ misogyny

Blimey! What kind of parent lets their child go to school without breakfast? How do they expect them to learn all day, upset and on an empty tummy. That’s awful behaviour! Children at that age are growing, settling into secondary school & all kinds of other stuff - a quick ‘are you up?’ wouldn’t go amiss. Pretty poor behaviour from the parent, in my opinion!

While it’s correct it’s a natural consequence, I find it really hard to accept it’s ok a child goes to school not eaten and is probably expected to focus all day at school. How would parent B like it if they are expected to focus all day at work hungry

to add - even on B’s time, A seems to still be doing all the parenting…

On some level your DS knows that if he doesn’t go to his father’s house during the week his father will not bother to keep in touch—its out of sight out of mind for him. And your ex will only put himself out for the child of the woman he currently needs for sex/companionship. To the extent he cares about and identifies with your son he is raising him to be resilient and NO WORK for himself. That is his ideal in a child. If the women choose to bend over backwards and do extra for the kid—as long as it doesn’t affect him or make him look or feel bad—he doesn’t mind. But the second his eldest’s needs conflict with his needs or remind him of his own vulnerability or shame he will freak out and go on the attack.

Please keep being there for your son—those pick ups and drop offs are precious moments that will build a lifetime of security in your son. From that place of knowing that he is loved he will be more resilient and capable, not less.

B is a twat. What is it with these men who have a new baby and don't drive and don't bother to feed their kids before school!

My friend has a very similar ex. Let's the 15 year old come home at 10pm in the dark after sports training as dad can't be bothered to meet him and of course doesn't drive.

I agree with a pp that you shouldn't say you agree with the dad if you don't. I don't mean slagging him off but I wouldn't defend behaviour I thought was neglectful.

My DS is 17 and I still knock on his door to make sure he's awake on a school day! As him laying in makes the morning difficult for all of us. At 11 i don't see the issue - no way would I lie in bed while DS got up at that age. And sleep deprivation comes with a baby surely!

You sound like a great mum. If I only had my kid with me 50 percent of the time I would make the most of every single breakfast with them - baby or no baby. I love walking with my DC to school especially as I know it will not be for much longer.

Why couldn't the child have breakfast in the car?

. We do this if we are running late. We have a travel mug aswell for tea which we take every day as it's a 20 minute drive.

Thank you to everyone for your really kind comments, it really means so much to me as this situation is something I’ve been struggling with for a long time. I don’t have many people in real life around me to offload to about this.

I live in this city which is 200 miles away from my home city, I moved here when DS was a baby as his Dad basically gave an ultimatum of it’s his city or we can’t be a family. I moved away from my support network so that we could make it work, that should have been the red flag I obviously ignored.

I feel like every time I raise the little things such as clean uniform, wearing appropriate clothing, sending him to school with a water bottle etc it just gets laughed at and minimised. So for years I’ve been just bottling it up and to read all your responses has been so validating, that I’m not expecting too much from co-parenting.

From some of the earlier responses to my post I was seriously doubting myself that I am a helicopter Mum. But then I’ve read some really lovely comments which perfectly summarises how I’m not damaging my child by wanting to make sure he’s prepared for his day, for wanting to spend those moments in the morning with him. I do think I need to be promoting more independence but I’m going to see how I can do this in a skills focused way, a graded approach to independence because he does need it but at a pace and with lots of love and a safe person to fall back on and make those mistakes without unfair punishment. Thank you all for taking the time to read my posts and share your thoughts

Did you even read the opening post?

There's enough there to start making a list of his difficulties.
Sensory .. not knowing when hungry, thirsty. Any other over or under sensitivity?
Executive function skills.
Is he "young for his age?"

It's fine to support kids with difficulties. Just because your average kid can do xyz, doesn't mean all of them can. You parent the kid you've got. And work from where he is now to improve.

I'm also concerned that dad filling his head with excuses for his lack of parenting.

He definitely has interoception difficulties: underresponsive hunger/thirst/temperature signals. Will not think about needing a coat, hat, gloves. So I often send him to Dads wearing clothes appropriate for the weather, and Dad just lets him wear anything and doesn’t prompt him at all about it. The amount of times he goes to Dads wearing his winter coat and comes out without a coat, it blows my mind how his Dad doesn’t think about these things? When I raise it, he again says it’s not his fault child doesn’t pick up his coat.

Sensory wise, he’s pretty much a seeker (under-responsive) across the board. We do lots of regulation at home. I’m an OT (surprisingly, doesn’t seem that way with my child’s lack of independence!!) so I think perhaps I’m slightly underplaying his difficulties because I spend my days supporting children with extremely high needs.

Of course when I raise these things to Dad, he completely undermines me and my professional experience. He often says “aww did you read that in a book?” And I just can’t engage with it. I can’t get him to understand from our perspective and he constantly thinks I’m making excuses for DS. It’s so tiring.

What also makes it really tricky is that Dad won’t let me message him. Because in the past I have typed paragraphs to him explaining these things and calling him out on the things he doesn’t do. He’s blocked me on all messaging so the only way we communicate is if I call him. I hate calling him because he doesn’t listen to me, if I start saying things he doesn’t agree with he just hangs up.

We do get on well though when things are okay, he will call or take my calls and we’re amicable. But as soon as I call him out on something, I get hung up on and then the next day he’ll call like nothing happened. So I’m almost conditioned not to raise issues, but the breakfast/ sleep in incident the other day was obviously something I wasn’t going to accept.

I don’t know how else to make him understand. I’ve tried talking to his partner, as she’ll often text me apologising that DS didn’t have XYZ (she’s lovely and does so much for DS, and often does get up with the baby to see him off in the morning) and she laughs it off and agrees with me that he’s a pain but just rolls her eyes and lets him spout shit basically.

My god, he sounds like an utterly dreadful parent.

Erm and? Nothing wring with getting up and ready and breakfasted and off to school on your own at 11. FGS

This kid isn't you and has some additional needs. Also where he lives might not be suitable to ride to school.

Different kids need different support. Popping to the park (as a previous poster said) independently in one area is fine, in another not so much. (Red light district, grooming gangs, a murder and serious assault and that's the safer park)

I have a y6 & y8. Both are dyslexic and my y8 has further neurodiversity.

Neither responds well to alarms. I give them a first call when I get up. I go down and cook them a breakfast. The word breakfast (or more accurately "food, come, now") is what lures them out of bed. They then get dressed with varying degrees of nudging depending on their mood. They have to be reminded about things like hair, teeth and shoes. Some days they need practical support.

DS1 is driven to school. If DH is in the office at a regular time, he takes him otheewise I drive him. DS2 may walk with friends or have to walk himself the short distance. If I'm free I'll walk with him.

DS1 is collected a 10 min walk from school where I can reliably park sensibly. He can catch the bus and does when required, but he finds it overwhelming. He tends to forget to zap off, and get charged the full potential distance. It's better for his energy levels to have a lift. It's also about a 40min route and not an enjoyable walk for anyone. I trained him to catch the bus by running down to school (along a variation that I would not want a small lone pre-teenager to use) and catching it with him. I then built to meeting him at the bus stop which I'll tend to do when viable on a bus day. He can catch the bus if necessary, but it's better for him to have a bit more support and nuture. A NT peer, I'd be happier to leave them to it.

DS has missed breakfast before, usually grabbing something to eat in the car, but that's never been for a lack of having food prepared and offered. If he is late, that is the natural consequence in itself. Yesterday I noticed his tie was grubby... I grabbed a fresh one to swap with and the first went in the next wash.

Your ex is a lazy, selfish excuse of a parent. Leaving a child to struggle and fail then punish them for it is mean. All his parenting "principles" have the underlying feature of having minimal effort on his part rather than supporting his child's needs. If he was the only parent involved, your DS would have a pretty miserable existance.