Co-parenting disagreement - the role of a parent?

[Blueotter22]

Im looking for some genuine honest opinions and I’m going to try and keep my personal feelings/emotion out of it because I’m just interested in what the norm is..

Co-parenting situation: 11 year old boy spends 50/50 split with parents, who live close to each other. Will call parent A & B for the sake of trying to be unbiased. A drives, B doesn’t. A does all school drop offs and pick ups/ fits this around their work diary. B works from home and lives with partner and baby (9 months). A lives alone.

A collects child from the street next to B and takes to school at 8am, every morning when child has stayed overnight at B’s. Child is usually on time every morning, child has some difficulty with time management/forgetfulness but has been trying really hard with his morning routine and there has been big improvements at both houses. Child has been poorly and off school, so returns to school having had weekend + 2 days off (broken sleep due to illness/out of routine). Child woke up at B’s and accidentally turned off his alarm, meaning he woke up at 7.55 when due to be collected at 8. B calls A, and B is angry on the phone saying child has slept in so he’s just getting dressed now and won’t have time for breakfast. A says there’s always time for breakfast, he can bring it in the car. B says no, it’s child’s fault for turning off alarm and this is the consequence. A collects child, child is upset in car saying they didn’t realise they turned off the alarm and consequence is no technology for 3 days. B did not send breakfast for child.

A’s view: At 11 years old, child still needs a parent to help in the morning for prompts and to keep on time. At A’s house, child sets alarm and doesn’t sleep through it. A will call in “are you up” etc. A will get ready for work alongside child, ocassionally prompt “have you got your PE kit” etc or sometimes 5 mins left etc. A thinks B is too harsh, and it’s the role of a parent to make sure their child is at school of time having had breakfast and with the right equipment. A thinks B should set their alarm and get out of bed to make sure child is up.

B’s view: How will child ever turn into a responsible adult if they can’t get themselves up and ready in the morning? B expects child to get himself up, dressed, breakfast on his own while B & partner sleep. Child is responsible for leaving the house on time without B or partner awake. This is building life skills so he is a functional adult. B thinks A is too soft and is damaging child by reminding him and not letting him experience the consequences. Eg; no time for breakfast, you don’t eat.

Who is BU?

For poll: you ARE = Parent A unreasonable
are NOT = Parent B unreasonable

Thoughts/ views/ opinions/ advice - all welcome.

thank you

The disagreement is around feeling uncomfortable that child is being punished for accidentally sleeping in, because B had also slept in and doesn’t feel it’s his responsibility for child to be ready/have had breakfast on time. B firmly believes it’s the child’s fault he didn’t get breakfast, because he didn’t get up in time.
B is a lazy arse. Does he have to stay of tech for 3 days if he sleeps in? If baby's disturbing the adults sleep he's probably disturbing DS sleep too. Getting a child do get ready independently is a skill and there's step that involve teaching the child the skills necessary and slowly reducing parental support. Not just telling child they have to be ready by X time.

Practically it doesn't matter if what his Dad is doing is too harsh or not. I'd work out how you can teach him the necessary skills at your place and then he can transfer those skills to Dad's house. I'd think a second different alarm would be easiest. Does he have a smart watch or fitness tracker he can set an alarm on? I'd also switch to aiming for the same time at your place, ready by 7:50. You could then just chat or something until 8. It can be really hard to change between getting ready at different but very similar times, so he runs a few minute late because yesterday he was getting ready at Mums house.

I wouldn't be trying to justify his Dad's behaviour. I wouldn't be saying it's wrong either, just neutral but I'd also address the emotions your DS is feeling.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with you doing the school run. Presumably he’s only just started secondary. I would aim for him to be making his own way completely by the end of year 8. 11 is still quite small to go 40 minutes there and back alone, sometimes in the dark.

How many parents of smaller children have non sleeping babies and still parent their other children. I get up and sorts out for school every day whether the baby has slept or not. As does every other parent I know. It is pretty basic parenting

Thank you, this absolutely makes sense and I agree with you. I agree with lots of the comments on here, very reasonable responses.
What I’m struggling with though, is imagining my son would do any of this and learn from it. I’ve suspected for a while he has certain ADHD traits, but overall not severe enough to pursue a diagnosis. But the more I read these comments of what other parents expect of their 11 year olds, it’s worrying me slightly.

Cause and effect type consequences don’t work for him. He literally forgets simple instructions and does not think about forward planning or problem solving.
for example, today he comes home and Wednesday is his free night with no after school clubs, so it’s chore night. I’m still working (from home) and I give him a list of jobs he needs to do around the house before he goes on tech. He’s fine with this, likes to help out. First instruction was to hang his coat up because he always just dumps his coat wherever he takes it off (unless I’m stood right next to him to remind him coat goes on the peg)
So I give him the instructions, on an actual list so he can remember his jobs. I say, okay what’s the first one? He says - get changed out of my uniform.
No, try again.
scratches his head, looks around (coat is literally on the sofa infront of him)
finally looks at his list..
Ohhh hang my coat up. Okay yes, I’ll do that.
Leaves the room, spends 5 minutes searching the house, Mum can I have your car keys I’ve left my coat in the car, I say no you haven’t, he then starts panicking oh I must have left it at school. No, it’s right there.. eyes to sofa (which is literally infront of him) Ohhhh.

This is a daily thing.
Finishing his drink in a glass, getting up to go to the kitchen to put his plate in dishwasher (prompt), comes back with a new glass full of juice. When he literally finished his glass and walked away from it, just leaving it empty.

Clothes, dropped on floors where he leaves them. Constant prompts every single day to remind him. Post it notes on cupboard doors. Reminders on Alexa. It’s like he forgets instantly, and it genuinely upsets him when he misses something/can’t remember.

If I left him to his own devices, he wouldn’t eat or drink until he was starving or really thirsty. At weekends I need to constantly prompt him to come and eat something/ have a drink. He’s just so underresponsive to certain bodily sensations that he will not register it or be prompted like a “typical” person. He just won’t eat or drink, he’ll forget/get distracted until the signal is too big to ignore.

Im open to pulling up my socks and reflecting on my own parenting approach, absolutely. But I also do think that some of his struggles are not lazy/behavioural and he does need prompting from myself or his Dad.

I would not be defending dad. He is a wanker. Don't gaslight your son. He is already being neglected. I would be suggesting every other weekend and a dinner midweek.

Yes, my view exactly. I give my 15 year old a couple of wake up reminders, as I did his brother. Brother has no trouble getting up and out for work.

There is no way any child of mine leaves the house without breakfast while I lie in bed unless I’m ill.

How many parents of smaller children have non sleeping babies and still parent their other children. I get up and sorts out for school every day whether the baby has slept or not. As does every other parent I know. It is pretty basic parenting

Exactly this. He should be doubling down on supporting his son right now when he’s staying there.

@Snugglemonkey is spot on.

The more you post about him, the worse he sounds. Does actually care about his son at all?

Agree with others. When I had a tiny baby I managed to get up for my older DC. Wouldn’t have thought of not doing it.

I would have a chat and ask whether he’d like to spend the evening with dad and come back to yours to sleep.

Yes, again, spot on. When my eldest was 11 DS2 was 3 and at times a poor sleeper. My 11 year old was never neglected, no matter how tough a night his brother gave us. Your ex is a crap parent.

I know a few lazy parents who excuse their neglect by describing themselves as teaching 'character building' or suchlike.

I'm not necessarily accusing your ex of neglect, but this isn't 50/50.

Just do EOW and give yourself a break.

Why are you defending his Dad?

A is being a martyr here and child should get the bus!

Yeah, B is a neglectful dick. It's difficult because by doing these things, your DS is not seeing what a useless git his dad is. He's using the excuse about building resilience and independence so as to pay no maintenance but not actually DO anything. I'd really cut the '50/50'. What is the point if they aren't even there for him in the mornings? I'd hate to stress, eat and leave while everyone else was asleep every day, and I'm 46.

If DH sleeps in a bit, I shout up. If DD 14 isn't making enough racket I will check on her to make sure a she's on her way. I'd spend two seconds making her some toast if she was running late, as I would anyone in my home, because breakfast matters and so does being kind to the people I love. Never mind an 11yo.

I also think 40mins is a fair trek, and if it makes no odds to you, I don't see it's an issue. I often do it for DD when it's cold, wet or she has a tonne of ingredients or whatever. She still has her chores, expectations and responsibilities. She's still gaining her independence, with the knowledge that her mother likes doing her acts of kindness.

I’m just trying to be factual rather than defending him, personally I cannot stand the man and the years I spent with him absolutely shattered my confidence. But DS adores him, the sun shines out of his arse and he can’t do wrong. There have been occasions where I have complained to him about his Dad (when I buy DS new clothes he wants to wear to his Dads at the weekend and I never see them again/ coats/ walking boots/ waterproofs) and DS told me directly he hates it when I “have a go” about his Dad because he feels like he has to choose a side, it’s not Dads fault he’s busy with the baby, it’s not Dads fault that he (DS) has decided to wear summer shorts, a T-shirt 3 sizes too small and his school shoes when I’ve come to collect him to take him on a walk. It’s not his Dads fault that I’m collecting him on the hottest day of the year and he’s wearing a Christmas wooly jumper and long jeans.

Its not his Dads fault that he (DS) left his inhaler at his Nans house/ Dads friends house, anyways Dad said I don’t even have asthma and you’re being dramatic.

It’s exhausting. It’s more work to co-parent then it is to be on my own it feels. But DS absolutely refuses to have it any other way, I have suggested changing the routine multiple times and I get such an emotional backlash that is clearly not what DS wants but he also doesn’t recognise that his Dad is, well just a bit shitty. He is a very funny and loving Dad at times, he will sit and play Xbox with him and make him laugh. But the mental load is very much mine, and I often get texts from his partner apologising on behalf of Dad. But Dad will never, ever, admit that what he’s doing is not enough.

I have a 12 year old in first year of secondary school - she organises herself in the morning and walks 10 minutes to school on her own with a bit of me hurrying her along.

If I had already left for work or was I’ll in bed with advance notice she would probably be ok with getting herself up and out the door, but I feel quite sad for your lad getting himself up and out without anyone wishing him to have a good day when they are still in the house. Aren’t the little things the way we show our love to one another - I’ll say to DH “have you got your keys” or “it’s curry for tea tonight”. It’s just a way of checking in and telling someone we care about them.

In a few years he probably won’t be seen dead in a car with you, I think you sound like a lovely caring mum who is helping her son transition to high school.

Absolutely right.

@Blueotter22

you're a lovely mum. He's 11, yes, he needs to learn to be independent & self motivated etc, but it can come gradually. He doesn't need to be thrown in the deep end!!

there's no way I'd sit at home, leaving a Y7 to walk to school, by himself - no mates when I could easily drop him off to meet his mates & walk the rest of the way with them.

you (as well as DS) seem very lenient & protective of his Dad. He's being lazy & a crap Dad to DS (in the mornings at least). DS is 11, as a parent, it's totally normal to be up & out of bed with them in the mornings. He can do it for the baby, he can do it for his partner, but he can't be arsed to do it for his eldest!! (DS will notice & care, even though he pretends it's fine).

So what if the baby wakes him in the night? It's what they do. Does he think every parent of a baby gets to stay in bed???

DS has been doing well getting himself ready for school, he accidentally went back to sleep after turning his alarm off). I'm 54 & have several alarms set on iPad/iphones (yes plural) because I don't sleep well (or at all some nights). He has done this once. It's not like he's gaming all night & has done it loads. There was no need for punishment. Dad should have got breakfast in a box ready for him while DS was getting dressed, instead of getting grumpy & issuing punishments.

id have taken him breakfast to eat in the car, ignoring grumpy arse.

can I ask why you pick him up a street over & not from home & why Dad doesn't drive?

About DS, I would definitely get him a diagnosis as there will be things you can do to help him when you know what he's dealing with AND in exams he'll get more support, allowances etc. you're doing him an injustice not getting a diagnosis.

Dad's rigid thinking, maybe he has SEN too.

Good god a bit of kindness for DC

would you get up an adult who had slept in accidentally and quickly make them a snack to take on their way out too? of course you would that’s living together and being a family, poor DC

food down blazer, adult would point it out child would scrub it off

I think DC dad should get up with him in the morning and not let him leave the house without seeing another soul it’s not about independence
it's about care and being a family

and honestly the best part of my day is when I get a few minutes in the morning driving a dc to school when I can so YANBU

Its not his Dads fault that he (DS) left his inhaler at his Nans house/ Dads friends house, anyways Dad said I don’t even have asthma and you’re being dramatic.

Wow.

Thank you for your kind response, genuinely made me tear up a little.

I did take breakfast, and I always take him snacks (fruit/ pepperami) for breaks too as Dad doesn’t provide snacks as he doesn’t believe in snacks?

I pick him up at the bottom of my street (Dad lives around the corner on the street behind) because I used to pick him up from Dads but his road has lots of give ways and the traffic is awful to then get back around the other way. So he’s runs around the corner so it’s easier for the drive for me. But I am thinking perhaps it might be a good idea for him to start walking to my house in the morning for that bit of independence? It’s only a 5 min walk or so.

I have spoken to the GP and in Y6 I spoke with SENDCo of his primary, she arranged a meeting to discuss and then cancelled the meeting. He was then transitioning to secondary school so feels like I need to start again with it, and it will be me pursuing it all because Dad doesn’t agree with diagnosis. Though funnily you should mention, Dad has self-diagnosed himself ADHD and said he just learnt the hard way to “learn to enjoy losing” and it’s something DS is just going to have to accept about himself, life is hard.

He’s extremely rigid in his views and extremely misogynistic.

I understand why you are taking such care of him when your ex is borderline neglectful. I think you could calmly firmly reply to the it’s not dads fault… with : ‘sweetheart, parenting is being responsible for your children’s welfare, even when you have other priorities. When or if you have children one day I hope you understand they need nurture and support to learn to stand on their own and you don’t neglect that and just make excuses.’

look into executive function support, I agree he sounds beyond usual scatty and I have a son like this who probably has adhd. Perhaps a visual chart of after school activities next to the coat hook - I know he is a little old but he might really benefit from it and learn the techniques to support himself better as he gets older.

YANBU. Parent B is an absolute arse and not fit to be a parent.

If as you suspect he does have ADHD then you are still aiming for independence your route just might be a bit different.

And have some more detours in it.

I have a child with ADHD. She is now at university where she bitches about the lack of life skills her fellow students have. Just to be clear that I'm not just talking, U've done this.

So, mine needed to be taught to travel to school by train. They went to a school in the next town that had a good reputation for dealing with SEN.

We ran it in stages.

First stage: travel with parents to town school was in for a day out. Repeat three times with the children having their own tickets on the journey.

Second stage: coaching. Coach them through them doing the journey "as if I wasn't here". They can stop and ask questions at any point.

Third stage: trouble shooting. Sitting down with them - what might go wrong? How would you deal with it? This led to them carrying emergency money. They already had mobiles so could call us.

Fourth stage: they do journey on their own.

Only after all that did they make their first trip to go to school.

Lots of times things went wrong. I got a lot of phone calls. My favourite was
"I'm on the wrong train and I don't know where I am".

She was one stop the wrong direction up the line. Which she found out by asking the adult sitting next to her.

She did wait about half an hour at a windswept train station to get the next train in the correct direction.

By the time she left that school 5 years later she was confident on trains.

Oh and to answer why Dad doesn’t drive..
(This is deadly serious)..

Dad doesn’t need to learn how to drive, he already knows how to drive he just doesn’t have a license, why waste his money on a car that drops in value and costs so much to run.

Meanwhile…Dads partner was learning how to drive until she was quite far gone in her pregnancy, hasn’t gone back to lessons due to baby/feeling anxious after having baby.

Dad has no financial or physical reason why he can’t drive, he just doesn’t want to. Because why should he, when the women in his life will? (he didn’t say that bit, but that’s what I think!)

OP - you’re a lovely mum and instead of viewing this as infantalising your son you can view it as demonstrating what it means to be there for someone in real terms.

My parents split up when my brother was only a bit older than this - my dad used to pick him up and drive him to school every day, not to make him an incapable human being, but because he missed him and valued having those few moments together every day.

If you make sure this is the element that is stressed - ie. it’s not that he’s incapabale without your help, but simply that you value being there for him wants spending time with him (and totally hear you about wandering about in the dark in these winter months as well!) He is also getting old enough to appreciate that people have different views on things and that you parent differently to your ex. You don’t have to paint his dad as evil - you can understand how the baby factors in etc, but it’s also fine to reassure that everyone sometimes sleeps through an alarm/forgets something etc and it’s no big deal. (Also yes to breakfast bars in the car just in case!)

Far from being some incapable waster my brother is a high achiever, not least as one of the top three most supportive husbands and fantastic hands on dads I know. So it clearly didn’t do him any harm to have some extra support!