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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect engagement

303 replies

Ellll9478 · 28/11/2023 02:19

So me and my boyfriend have been together almost 3 years
Everything is really good,he is lovely and treats me well.
We had a plan to move in together this year but a few things went wrong and it didn't happen

Our new plan was to move in together ( to my apartment that I own) in Jan next year. Everything was good, making plans ect

Then we had a conversation A few days ago about getting married and the future.
I thought that moving in together ment that engagement was pretty much guaranteed. He said as much, whenever a friend got engaged he'd say, your turn soon.
But now he's saying he would wanna live together at least a year before he even decides if he wants to get married to me/ propose.
Am I wrong for thinking that you should be decided before you move in together?

The thing that worries me is that I own the apartment,I don't have a mortgage or anything. And he would be giving me just a little towards bills and stuff,he's doing a PhD so doesn't have much money, but I was okay with this because I thought it would be helpful to our future together

Am I wrong to now change my mind? Because of the engagement thing?

I'm 26 he's 30
He wants to break up if he doesn't move in because he said it would make me not trustworthy

I haven't had many healthy relationships so please be kind but honest

OP posts:
NotObligedToArgueWithStrangers · 28/11/2023 07:45

"He wants to break up if he doesn't move in because he said it would make me not trustworthy"

WTF??? Bin him, what an arsehole.

Dogsandbabies · 28/11/2023 07:46

Why do you want to marry him? If you have assets and are a higher earner I would think very hard before getting married.

greenelight · 28/11/2023 07:47

He doesn't want to get engaged because he doesn't want to buy you a ring when he knows he doesn't want to marry you and won't get his money back.

He's a sponger. He wants to fork out nothing and live pretty much for free with you. Then when he's up and earning he'll bin you off for someone else.

The fact he's stuck an arbitrary must live together for a year is odd, he'd know within a few months given how well you should know each other already after three years.

The no birthday card is awful. What a cruel way to punish you. He could have gotten you a token gift. Some flowers or a box of chocolates wouldn't break the bank. He chose not to.

Venomous · 28/11/2023 07:49

Ellll9478 · 28/11/2023 02:33

Thanks I guess you are right, it just that I would be mostly supporting him money wise, I'm probably wrong for thinking that I should expect engagement for that

You’re wrong for thinking engagement is a male reward for female compliance and financial support. Or in this case a dangled carrot to encourage compliance.

NamelessNancy · 28/11/2023 07:51

It's so depressing to me that in 2023 women are "waiting for a proposal" from dickheads who dangle hints in front of them like carrots.

I agree with the OPs boyfriend that living together before such a big decision is sensible. That said, he sounds pretty awful otherwise.

Starseeking · 28/11/2023 07:52

Ellll9478 · 28/11/2023 03:25

Another thing is,it was my birthday in October and he got me nothing,no card or anything.
He was getting ready to start uni so I didn't expect much, I knew he probably couldn't get me a gift.
But I thought he would probably get me a card
But nothing at all, when I mentioned it he said I didn't deserve anything, not even a card because I'd upset him

he is usually so sweet to me so it's a bit confusing

Either this is a wind up, or you need to work on your self-esteem. Fair enough if he's studying and not able to splash out on presents, but a card costs £2! It really is the thought that counts, and for him to say you don't deserve a birthday card is bizarre.

If you've made it clear that birthdays are important to you, and this is what he did, I'd end it now as it's only going downhill from here; at this point in the relationship he should still be on his best behaviour!

EyeInTheSky23 · 28/11/2023 07:54

So he's saying "last me move into your apartment or we're over" and "if you don't let move into your apartment, you're untrustworthy".

No, no, no.

Matty this guy and give him a shot at 50% of your assets in a divorce? - no.

GreatGateauxsby · 28/11/2023 07:57

LaurieStrode · 28/11/2023 02:41

Cocklodger 🚨!

Tell him you've changed your mind and will revisit the idea of cohabitation when he's received his doctorate and your incomes are on an equal footing.

His reaction will tell you what you need to know.

This

he works PART TIME as an able bodied man… unless he has a magical penis and you have a trust fund which means you are 100% financially secure I don’t get how you can have kids or build a life together….

EyeInTheSky23 · 28/11/2023 07:57

Dogsandbabies · 28/11/2023 07:46

Why do you want to marry him? If you have assets and are a higher earner I would think very hard before getting married.

This.

A very important qualifier on getting married is that it is not in the best interests of the higher earner/person with more assets if it all doesn't go beautifully.

And with this guy's behaviour I'm wondering hard whether it would all go beautifully.

I know two women who lost significant assets in divorces to men who brought nothing in.
One lost her home and now lives in social housing.

Starseeking · 28/11/2023 08:02

notanoda · 28/11/2023 07:43

Now my personal experience:
I was in your shoes a few years ago. Ex moved into my house. He quit work' to help focus on his future plans.' He won't give me as little as a Christmas card. I would pay for dates and birthday dinners. I paid the bills whilst he focused on his PhD and spent his time pontificating, writing, and pursuing personal interests such as sports and time with friends. He was future faking the entire time. He not only used me for free shelter and day-to-day living, he used me for research support (helped reading his work and giving research guidance). When he eventually got work close to the end of the PhD, he all of a sudden decided he now wanted to be independent and experience what it is to own his home independently etc. He wanted no joint effort. He said as a man he needed to build alone. He dumped me and got with someone else.
Most men don't like to be with those who knew their struggle. They don't like to feel indebted to you. They'd rather be with someone who thinks they were born successful, not the one who knows their journey.

Don't let him use you financially and mentally.
If you must live together, insist he pays his fair share.
Don't push for engagement. Keep your options open. Being married is the goal, not being engaged. He or the one will step up financially so that they can marry you. And it'd be their responsibility to plan and build their life to be at par, not yours.

Nodding all the way through this.

My future faker came to resent me and emotionally abuse me because I earned more than him; by the time I left him I was earning double what he was, and he was on a good salary.

Be careful that this man is not punishing you for "having life easy", as mine put it, despite the fact I didn't come from money, and had built myself up from nothing.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 28/11/2023 08:02

The 'not trustworthy' bit rings alarm bells. If you want to put a brake on things and have a boundary then he shouldn't force you. as a compromise I would offer to stay with you for a month in Jan so that he has 2-3 months to find alternative so you don't leave him in the lurch.
It's fine to say I don't feel comfortable losing lodger income and subsidizing someone unless we're going to get married so I want to wait for an engagement before you move into my place.
It's awful living with someone doing a PhD by the way - no structure.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 28/11/2023 08:03

If he's willing to dump
You for not giving him free rent what does that say about him?

YesIDoJudge · 28/11/2023 08:04

LaurieStrode · 28/11/2023 02:41

Cocklodger 🚨!

Tell him you've changed your mind and will revisit the idea of cohabitation when he's received his doctorate and your incomes are on an equal footing.

His reaction will tell you what you need to know.

This.

Hankunamatata · 28/11/2023 08:07

If have a look at something like the freedom programme. You deserve someone who treats you with respect

I suspect he has been kind up to now so he can move in with you while you support him during his PhD

Thepeopleversuswork · 28/11/2023 08:07

Half the problem is people get so fixated on engagements and proposals and they mean literally nothing. Forget about the engagement, it's window dressing. Worry about the marriage.

You get married or you don't. If marriage is important to you and particularly if you're the lower earner, it's probably a good idea to have discussed this before moving in to be clear that it's the endgame in your mind.

But I agree with him that living together is probably a sound idea before getting engaged. It would be mad to plan a lifetime with someone without some experience of living with them.

GreatGateauxsby · 28/11/2023 08:21

I also agree with others marrying him is financially very risky.

if he is not motivated to work you may find yourself looking at a court order to give him MORE than half your assets and potentially spousal support (Which is rare but not unheard of) when you eventually divorce.

my friend is a surgeon her ExH was “an actor” her parents gave her a 2 bed in angel and they lived for their 10 year marriage. When he cheated on her AGAIN and they divorced… THEN his parents magically found financial support for him and gave him the 30% value of the flat to enable him to stay there mortgage fre.
my friend ended up living in a barge as she needed to be close to the hospital and it was what she could afford as she also had to pay spousal maintenance (despite no children) for 5 years to enable him to retrain / get to work.

MagratsDanglyCharms21 · 28/11/2023 08:29

Honestly, I thought YWBU until this
He wants to break up if he doesn't move in because he said it would make me not trustworthy

What a twat to add an element of blackmail to what should be a positive step to a relationship! However, no. You are not somehow owed an engagement. Truly, you don't know someone until you live with them so I'm on the fence there. I'd be seriously reconsidering him though.

Bin85 · 28/11/2023 08:30

Do you see yourself having children in the future?
This brings another dimension to it all.

jemenfous37 · 28/11/2023 09:29

But nothing at all, when I mentioned it he said I didn't deserve anything, not even a card because I'd upset him
Stop this now. It will be hard, of course it will. But this man sounds like a selfish fucker who is dangling you on a string with promises of future proposals etc.
He will stay with you until he has finished his course then realise 'he needs someone or something else' in his life...
Please don't be the person who is back here is 2 years wondering what the hell happened when you had given him everything and wanted/expected a proposal....

CurlewKate · 28/11/2023 09:44

He's moved the goalposts. Which is absolutely not on -you have to want the same things. And talk to a solicitor about the arrangements before he moves in. It's about practicalities as well as emotion. Protect yourself.

Aquamarine1029 · 28/11/2023 09:50

He wants to break up if he doesn't move in because he said it would make me not trustworthy

I haven't even bothered to read any responses...

Slam on the brakes, right now. What the fuck is that even supposed to mean? You'd be "untrustworthy?" Or maybe he'd just be pissed off because his nearly free ride wouldn't come to fruition.

Massive, massive red flag. It's shocking that he would even think that way towards you.

Bluevelvetsofa · 28/11/2023 09:57

I think he plans to be an eternal student and avoid actually having a career. He sounds controlling and unkind and if you were to marry him, you’d give him rights to your apartment.

readsalotgirl63 · 28/11/2023 10:08

Ellll9478 · 28/11/2023 03:25

Another thing is,it was my birthday in October and he got me nothing,no card or anything.
He was getting ready to start uni so I didn't expect much, I knew he probably couldn't get me a gift.
But I thought he would probably get me a card
But nothing at all, when I mentioned it he said I didn't deserve anything, not even a card because I'd upset him

he is usually so sweet to me so it's a bit confusing

This is a huge red flag to me. He was punishing you because you upset him ? Who does that ?
As for the comment that you "didnt deserve anything" - that is not a comment from someone who truly loves and values you.

Please dont let this guy move in and please dont get engaged or married to him - he is a freeloading bully and you deserve much much better.

readsalotgirl63 · 28/11/2023 10:12

Actually everything that @LaurieStrode and @greenelight have said (among others)
My dc is a similar age to you and I would be telling her to run for the hills

ellie09 · 28/11/2023 10:19

Sorry if this comes across rude as it is not intended to be but...

He's part time working, renting a room etc, would he realistically have enough money for the engagement ring you would like? Then plan a wedding alongside moving in with you and paying his way?

Sometimes we do tend to want to rush everything at once but once you think with your head, its not really responsible.

I tend to agree with your partner. Let him finish his PHD, find full time work and if you still want, let him move in. Give him at least a year to settle in once he's found a full time job and then you can maybe revisit engagement expectations?

Finances are a really large part of married life and he is maybe thinking now is not the right time, which I would tend to agree with.

On the other hand, if you really cannot wait, you can always move on from this guy. However, he seems hard working and it would be a shame to miss out on something great simply because your timelines are not in sync at the moment.

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