to think that 4 boys should not be a deal breaker

[ItsCagain]

We have 4 boys 15 13 11 6. i can’t help but feel so jealous at people who go to Christmas markets with their kids. We can barely go out for dinner without them killing each other or be so difficult you just want to leave. This morning i saw some pic of a friend with their son and daughter last night and it makes me so sad that we can’t do that anymore with ours or at least not without complete despair

I also have four boys 19, 14, 12 and 9 so feel your pain to a certain extent. I'm pretty sure your friend didn't post the picture of her two tearing bits off each other and/or her screaming blue murder at them. Parenting can be hard whether it's one or 11!

Maybe it's an age thing, but we're doing more and more things together like go out for meals, city breaks, big family holidays etc as they get older...

I have 7 and 4 yr old girls. I wouldn’t dream of taking them to a Christmas market. It would be a disaster. I can’t imagine many kids wanting to go to a Christmas market.

Why do they fight so much? I have to boys but they’re ND so their relationship is different from the norm but surely it’s not normal that they can’t get along at all for a few hours?

If I’d worked out how to get my two boys to stop fighting I would have written a book and been a millionaire by now, and no siblings would ever fight again!

Edited to add: They have grown up to be lovely young men who get along fine now.

That’s quite an age range. I do different things with different combos (mother of 3)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DtzO9mAVBsw4&ved=2ahUKEwjSkYXk7d6CAxW3XUEAHcxkDgUQz40FegQIDBAJ&usg=AOvVaw2Y7FBfxB0LSTedHIEZwXhM

I know it's not the answer but your post reminded me of Henry cavill and his brothers... You aren't alone 🫂

You do it by practicing going out. You start at “easy” places like McDonald’s or Costa and work up to more challenging places. It’s expensive and time consuming but presumably fun?

Yes i suspect the 2 eldest slightly on the spectrum which causes issues especially ds1 as i know he dislikes chaos and noise (but happily be out with his mates going wild) so im sure there are individual struggles but still wish we could have an at least one memorable family outing a year and yes i do sometimes do separate things where dad takes older ones and i take the younger one but its not very nice for him as he misses the rest and i feel its not really family time.

I think siblings fight partly because they are a bunch of different personalities who have been forced together and can’t get out of the relationship, added to not having the emotional and social skills to get along. The external pressures of their parent’s approval or disapproval is generally not strong enough to overcome the compulsion to bicker and argue with someone you don’t necessarily get on with. ( Not talking about families with DV/abuse etc)

If you think about it, there are plenty of examples of adults who fight, and they either chose each other or are working together.

YABU. I had one sister. We fought constantly. Beyond a certain age we wouldn't have wanted to go anywhere together.

@MagpiePi

Its a genuine question - I don’t have any experience of this as a parent.

I fought with my sister because she was awful to me and my mother did nothing about it but moan at me as I was older.

My two autistic boys are very chilled with each other and have very different needs so can’t really fight or ‘not get on’.

I was asking what the issues are that make them so volatile. Even siblings who don’t get on really well can usually get through an evening.

What I will say is that when I was younger the siblings who fought a lot were never properly dealt with by their parents and it’s an issue that carried on into adulthood.

My ND boys fight with each other all the time currently. All someone has to do is look at the other one the wrong way and they're at it. A lot of it's over competing needs as they're close developmentally and need the same things and there's only one of me. At times their ND sister isn't any better.

You're not alone OP, there are many places I wouldn't take my kids unless I had to. I used to love wandering around the markets, no way I'd take them now. I shop online because it's a nightmare taking them to the shops. I've had to change a lot of how I did things to meet their needs and to minimise the soul sapping fohjting.

I agree 100%. My boys (12 and 9) are similar in lots of ways, but they're their own people and naturally have differences and rub each other up the wrong way constantly.

Their baby brother has just turned one, the only time they're even vaguely united is when they're making a fuss over him 😅😅

I have girl/boy twins and they metaphorically tear the strips off each other if left together for short periods. We are always on tender hooks if they are in the same room. They seem to hate each other but if one feels the other is vulnerable to someone else - than they get all protective of the other one. I think its just a kid thing.

@EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness

My boys have very different profiles - older is very calm personality wise but very caring naturally and feels very protective of his little brother who is 5 and still more like a two year old.

I have no idea why but he has endless patience with him and they play very nicely. They have literally never fought. I suspect this is very unusual.

I may be missing something but we had 4 kids - ok one was a girl , and it was only every other weekend.
But they didn't fight.
There was a 10 year span so maybe that was it.

Baby dd 4 , older boys- 9 and 10

So when the elder was 15, it would have been - 15, 14, 9.5 and 5.
They didn't fight.
But maybe adding the girl to the mix was why.
Their dad would not have stood for that.
But even in my own they played lovely together and I could take them anywhere.

Firstly don't let one nice smiley picture fool you. So many times I've seen families at 'photo opportunities' where the parents are yelling and cajoling for "just one nice bloody photograph" then they all stomp off grumpily.
Secondly Children bicker and argue. It just happens. I've got three sons and a daughter and with any combination of them there has been arguments.
Thirdly Christmas Markets can be hellish for even the mildest mannered! I got on a huff with my sister at one and we were both in our thirties! I find giving them all a budget, keeping the trip a reasonable length and dangling the carrot of food at the end helps.
Finally, just do stuff. The more you do it the more you can find what suits you all. You will find those rare windows family harmony, and when you do take a picture to annoy the rest of us with!

5 kids here and 3 are autistic - yeah we don’t go out much 😆 you’re not alone

I know this isn't quite the same but I have two boys aged 3 and 6 and they are FERAL. Not so much arguing as they do get on well but I suspect one might have ADHD (getting tested soon). They will just run about everywhere and not listen to instructions. We still go out as a family and get a nice picture but that picture definitely does not display our trip out. We tend to stick to outdoor areas with lots of space to run around and activities for kids or something like a soft play. If we go somewhere busy we just have to a have a firm grip of their hand!

Stay off social media then you have nothing to compare with!!

I also have four boys 19, 14, 12 and 9 so feel your pain to a certain extent. I'm pretty sure your friend didn't post the picture of her two tearing bits off each other and/or her screaming blue murder at them
This!
I have two boys and love posting photos of our days out.
I'm not going to be posting the majority of the day where they're prodding and poking each other /winding each other up/ getting each other on a headlock and basically driving me crazy until I end up shouting at them and threatening to never go for a day out again! 😭
You'll see the sipping hot chocolates next to fairy lights, and conveniently airbrush out and forget the fact it's fairy lights and not a fairy tale 😬

I am one for a preemptive strike, where we were going, what the day would consist of were explained. If they behaved then there would be a treat and if they didn’t then there wouldn’t be. My children were by no means perfect and they know which buttons to press to wind each other up but their behaviour has generally always been good on days or meals out from a young age to adulthood. I have friends with children of similar ages to yours and I’ve never seen them be anything other than well behaved in company, a little teasing but no more than that. Maybe an explanation of the day and your expectations would help.

OP I promise you girls aren’t much better.

Theres an episode of Malcolm in the Middle where the mum fa rises about having 3 girls instead of 3 boys. It all starts off lovely with clothes shopping fun and ends in disaster and she realises boys ain’t so bad - it’s a great episode and true to lofe

The problem is 4 kids, not that they're boys. You're outnumbered.

I'm one of 4, and 3 of us were girls. My parents felt the same way about taking us out places and our behaviour. We would wind each other up so much. Lots of squabbling, but also giddiness, messing about, misbehaviour.

I only have 2 children so if they're acting up there's a parent to deal with each child and separate them or take them out of the situation.

I do struggle more when I take them out of my own.

If Christmas markets specifically are important to you then maybe go with just one or two of them, or go in an evening with a friend. I've got 3 children, at least 2 have SEN and so we can't always do things other families do easily because of anxiety/ sensory issues. They all love theme parks though so that's usually a success and we just do things that work for us, or take them out one or two at a time.