to think that 4 boys should not be a deal breaker

[ItsCagain]

We have 4 boys 15 13 11 6. i can’t help but feel so jealous at people who go to Christmas markets with their kids. We can barely go out for dinner without them killing each other or be so difficult you just want to leave. This morning i saw some pic of a friend with their son and daughter last night and it makes me so sad that we can’t do that anymore with ours or at least not without complete despair

YABU because you believe photos on SM. Your boys may fight but nobody will ever bully them as they are a "gang" i would imagine it's a case of i can fight with my Brother but nobody else better dare. Don't get involved in their fights.

I have 3 boys and there's plenty of things we don't do. Car journeys can be really traumatic. I wouldn't want to take them to a proper restaurant where you study a menu, chat, drink, order then wait for your meals - we find buffet breakfasts work well for meals out, although we can manage a curry these days.
Obviously I love them all dearly, but something I really enjoy is taking one at a time. Could you divide and conquer? It's so nice to sit in a coffee shop or go for a walk with just one at a time and have a proper chat. Not deep and meaningful, just quality time well spent. Altogether they're a rabble, sometimes delightful, sometimes horrific, always unpredictable. It's such a treat to give them all my attention every so often and reminds me there's more to being a mum than stopping fights.

I'm a lone parent with 8 and 13 year old boys- and yes, they fight, screech and bicker loads unless stupefied with screens 🙄. The oldest one definitely bullies the younger one at times- but if I punish him for it the youngest one is begging for clemency on his behalf within 5 minutes! 🤦‍♀️

I've realised that things go a lot more smoothly if we break up the "all together" dynamic as much as possible, with us all spending one on one time with another regularly. So, yesterday the oldest had an inset day, so I skived off work and we went on a hike together. Occasionally the two of them will go to the nearby park together, or I leave them at home while I run an errand, and they always seem to have got on well in my absence. Or the eldest will go off with a friend and the youngest and I will do something we enjoy together. Problem is that we live rurally and the eldest isn't terribly interactive about organising stuff with friends, so often he's mooching around with us needling his brother 🙄. Today we're going to an event at an art gallery, which is definitely up the youngest's Street, not so the eldest's. Eldest hasn't arranged anything himself, so has just declared he's coming with us. I am braced for a trying day.

So in short OP, I think you've got unrealistic expectations of everyone happily hanging out together all the time.

I don’t think that it has anything to do with being boys.

The older ones are at the age where going out as a family is boring and stupid. They’ll come back to you but let them have these sulky years.

I’m a 34 women and I wouldn’t ever go to a Christmas market. Why not have a grown up discussion about things they’d like to do

If you asked anyone before having 4 kids “are 4 kids a handful” I’m pretty sure everyone would have told you yes. No need to make this about gender.

You've got big age gaps @ItsCagain ; it's probably more to do with that than the fact they're all boys. I think realistically it's going to be hard to find any joint activity that works for a 15 year old and a 6 year old

Ive 3 boys aged 14,13,9. The older two are only 11 months apart and everyone told me they would be best friends...well they literally killed each other and hated each other until something changed this year. They are hanging out with same friend group, walking to school together etc. we can't believe it think it's just an age thing but one thing I did stop doing was mentioning the fact they don't get on.

I am one of 5 and I had 4 children. Fighting, crying and ruining a trip out is part of family life. My DC only became civilised company when they became adults.

I agree with @OhNaffOffYouWazzock - one smiley picture on social media really definitely doesn't mean their family life is perfect or that their kids are better behaved than yours. All siblings squabble, and all families have days out that end in disaster (even if they won't admit it on mumsnet) and moments where it's all gone wrong and we've wondered where other kids are sitting quietly and ours are being bloody awful. It's a snapshot in time, that's all.

I'm not sure this is a gender thing also - Christmas markets are exactly the sort of day out that sounds nice in theory/ in a hollywood xmas film but is actually at high risk of boring the kids out of their minds (and I speak as a mum of two girls who actually like shopping and twinkly stuff!)

At this time of year, there's all this pressure to be the picture perfect family doing picture perfect christmas things together. I've fallen into the trap before of spending a fortune on all this stuff (winter wonderland walks, christmas markets, etc etc). I find it so rarely lives up to the reality - and also comes with all this added pressure of the money you've spent so you get additionally tense and annoyed when the kids play up!

Try to remember it's all nonsense really. All kids really want and need is a loving mum/ parents like you, a warm, calm and happy family home.

If you want to go to the Christmas markets though, you should! If you have a partner or someone else who can babysit, I would divide and rule. Ask the boys which ones of them would actually WANT to come with you to a xmas market. Stress that the reality of what you'll actually be doing and that you need good behaviour as it'll be crowded etc. And then say if you get the good behaviour, there's a treat at the end.

You might find one or two of the younger ones are desperate to come with you and have some one-to-one time (and they always behave better in this scenario I find). While the older ones will be happy to do something else!

I have three children, two boys and a girl. The oldest two bicker constantly, from the moment they are both up until bedtime. They have always been that way, I think it's just a personality thing. It is absolutely draining and I feel like I constantly tell them to leave each other alone. I do manage to take them out and about for meals etc but I do have to pick and choose where I take them! Try to remember that your friend's photo on social media isn't a true representation of her family, there may well be lots of arguing and tricky times too.

We've got one of each both toddlers. Went to a Christmas market last weekend and put a couple of lovely pictures on my Instagram. What I didn't post pictures of was the eldest on the floor screaming because she asked for something and I bought her exactly what she wanted but somehow it was still wrong. Youngest screaming his head off because I wouldn't let him take his shoes and socks off and run round bare foot. Or the multiple times I had to prise things out of their hands while they shouted that they wanted them.
Next one, I'm leaving them with their dad and going alone.

Social media photos show a tiny snapshot of one, carefully selected, moment in time.
We have 7 children from 7 to 20, not all want to take part in all family activities and trips out, so they are given options (where possible). We vary activities to include something to interest/engage everyone.
If children haven't been dragged along on an outing/activity they don't particularly want to take part in, they generally tend to behave better.
Our older children sometimes prefer to stay home and take advantage of a (relatively) quiet house and have friends over.
Why put yourself through the stress of dragging all four children to the Christmas markets when you can take along the children who actually want to be there (and are happy to behave for the privilege of being of being invited along).

Boys are great, my two oldest are boys, then we had a girl. I can honestly say, having a girl is overrated. I'm have been better off with three boys, in my comfort zone.
Girls even when well behaved and happy are harder work than boys, doesn't help that I'm not the most girly myself, so I'm lost with all the frilly bits and makeup.

I'm going to a Christmas market next weekend with my 17 and 15 year old DDs. I can't imagine trying to go with my 3 year old or when my DDs were younger.
Also pictures on Fb etc only show the good bits rather than the nightmare bits.

I have 3 boys and 1 girl. It’s the amount of kids, not the fact that they are boys. I sometimes struggle when I take them all out at the same time because they fight and squabble and argue.

3 out of 4 of my children have special needs. So this plays a big part in their behaviour and how they react to overwhelming situations.

I still make sure we do it though. I’m sick of feeling like we should all hide away for other people, and when we do go out we do have a great time most of the time. I always make sure we get pictures too.

I know plenty of girl families who fight like cats in a sack. All the time.

I mean yes, 4 kids, whether boys or girls, is a lot, which is why most people don't have that many.

I've actually loved reading this thread. I had three brothers (younger), similar close age ranges 2-3 years apart and they fought like cats and dogs, ganged up on one, different one each time (and sometimes ganged up all three on me as the only girl).

I think it's just rites of passage, finding their feet and place in the family and outside along with all the trials (petty and not so) that we might have been aware of or not at all.

I totally agree about the 'one nice bloody photo' and that sticks in my head now anytime I see something sugary on social media.

You're not alone, OP, I don't think anybody gets away with it totally... kids are time bombs waiting to go off.

Perfectly said😊

It's not a boy thing, it's a children thing. My brother and I were at each other's throats throughout childhood.

My sons didn't fight each other once they were over about age 8, but eldest son and youngest daughter couldn't find any common ground until they were early 20s / mid-teens respectively.

Large age gaps are more challenging because what your 15yo likes is of no interest to your 6yo and vice versa.

Once I had children I realised why sometimes you'd see a lovely family with proud , beaming parents standing out from the crowd. It was because it rarely happens and if its you having that great time for those minutes you look like that too. Don't believe the hype on SM. And I've never been to a Christmas Market I've enjoyed. I'm sure you are doing OK, but you've complicated it more than some by having 4 .

At these ages, would it be worth having this conversation with them? Explain they're missing out on fun activities because you can't trust them to behave? Challenge them to prove you wrong.

Another parent of 4 ND teenagers here. We went to the pub for lunch recently - first non-pizza related meal out in ages. They all got in a huff about why didn't we do it more often. Ha ha lol 🤣

A friend has four - three boys and a girl. Grown up now, but she once said they were all out at dinner and it got so bad her husband just stood up and walked out! Not very fair on her!
I feel your pain and I'd not be judging if I saw you out trying to cope...